4 ms·

I think the main issue is that the Internet (especially reddit, and to a lesser extent, HN) is just not a good place for nuanced discussion. China = totalitari

I think the main issue is that the Internet (especially reddit, and to a lesser extent, HN) is just not a good place for nuanced discussion. China = totalitarian = bad. Any good results are either by luck or a lie. USA = democracy = good. Any bad results are due to incompetence or Trump/Hillary (depending on your leanings). Plenty of people exist in the gray area, but they're not going to be upvoted. Any post in support of China is going to be marked as "bot" or "CCP shill". Japan gets lumped in with the US. The case I find funniest is South Korea. Everybody agrees SK has done an amazing job while maintaining a very free society and vibrant democracy. The room tends to go quiet when you mention that this was enabled by their mass surveillance network. (Check out the live streams of their traffic cams! [1]). [1] https://map.naver.com/v5/?c=14135232.1111786,4519333.3257182,15,0,0,0,dhc https://map.naver.com/v5/?c=14135232.1111786,4519333.3257182...

maallooc 7y ago
> Mass surveillance network Citation needed. Live traffic feeds are common here in the US[1] and other countries. [1] https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/live-traffic-cameras/ https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/live-traffic-cameras/
- gruez 7y ago
  [deleted]
  - maallooc 7y ago
    So? Having a traffic cam and/or having a traffic cam live feed does not prove that country has a 'mass surveillance network'.
    - gruez 7y ago
      [deleted]
      - maallooc 7y ago
        Am I missing something from your rebuttal? Where are 'phone scanners, facial-recognition cameras, face and fingerprint databases and many others' in South Korea?
- jariel 7y ago
  "> Mass surveillance network Citation needed." Are you kidding? China's mass surveillance and censorship network is pervasive, all-encompassing, widely publicized, and an intrinsic aspect of their state apparatus. It's not even remotely comparable to 'license plate monitoring' in scale, scope, politicization, repercussions. This level of relativistic rhetoric is anti-intellectual.
  - maallooc 7y ago
    So what? Are you saying that South Korea has mass surveillance system because it’s close to China?
  - gwright 7y ago
    The comment was in reference to South Korea, not to China. At least that is how I read it.
bogomipz 7y ago
>" The room tends to go quiet when you mention that this was enabled by their mass surveillance network. (Check out the live streams of their traffic cams!" I fail to see how live traffic feeds is evidence of their mass surveillance network. The US also has these. NYC and the DoT even broadcast the feeds it on a cable TV channel: https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/atis.shtml https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/atis.shtml https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/watching-city-traffic-on-camera/ https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/watching-city-...

maallooc 7y ago

> Mass surveillance network Citation needed. Live traffic feeds are common here in the US[1] and other countries. [1] https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/live-traffic-cameras/ https://transportation.arlingtonva.us/live-traffic-cameras/

gruez 7y ago
[deleted]
- maallooc 7y ago
  So? Having a traffic cam and/or having a traffic cam live feed does not prove that country has a 'mass surveillance network'.
  - gruez 7y ago
    [deleted]
    - maallooc 7y ago
      Am I missing something from your rebuttal? Where are 'phone scanners, facial-recognition cameras, face and fingerprint databases and many others' in South Korea?
jariel 7y ago
"> Mass surveillance network Citation needed." Are you kidding? China's mass surveillance and censorship network is pervasive, all-encompassing, widely publicized, and an intrinsic aspect of their state apparatus. It's not even remotely comparable to 'license plate monitoring' in scale, scope, politicization, repercussions. This level of relativistic rhetoric is anti-intellectual.
- maallooc 7y ago
  So what? Are you saying that South Korea has mass surveillance system because it’s close to China?
- gwright 7y ago
  The comment was in reference to South Korea, not to China. At least that is how I read it.

bogomipz 7y ago

>" The room tends to go quiet when you mention that this was enabled by their mass surveillance network. (Check out the live streams of their traffic cams!" I fail to see how live traffic feeds is evidence of their mass surveillance network. The US also has these. NYC and the DoT even broadcast the feeds it on a cable TV channel: https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/atis.shtml https://www1.nyc.gov/html/dot/html/motorist/atis.shtml https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/watching-city-traffic-on-camera/ https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/06/14/watching-city-...