4 ms·

To be fair, the subs are not 100% isolated when submerged. I don't know the protocol or time interval between communications, bur there are two systems that at

To be fair, the subs are not 100% isolated when submerged. I don't know the protocol or time interval between communications, bur there are two systems that at least the US uses to maintain command of then nuclear subs. One is the TACAMO ELF system [1], which transmits radio signals capable of reception at some depth below sea water [1]. A second is the Navy EHF Satellite Support System (NESP) [2] in which a small satellite dish mounted on the periscope is used. I can only speculate on what the operating orders are should a sub not receive communications from one of those after some period of time. [1]. https://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/scmp/part07.htm https://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/scmp/part07.htm https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-deadliest-aircraft-the-us-militarys-arsenal-you-have-20305 https://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-deadliest-air... [2]. https://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/underseawarfaremagazine/Issues/Archives/issue_01/voices.htm https://www.public.navy.mil/subfor/underseawarfaremagazine/I...

chrisseaton 7y ago
> To be fair, the subs are not 100% isolated when submerged. Obviously - they wouldn't be any use if you couldn't tell them to fire their missiles while they were submerged, would they?
- leetcrew 7y ago
  the subs don't need to be ready to retaliate immediately to be an effective deterrent. part of the strategic value of nuclear-armed subs is that the opponent can't destroy all of your launching capabilities in a first strike, even if they think they've located all your land-based sites. real-time communication with subs is probably only necessary to rapidly coordinate a first strike, or to specifically order them not to fire in an ambiguous situation.
  - justin66 7y ago
    In the United States, at least, ballistic missile submarines that never receive an authenticated launch order will not launch their missiles. It's meant to be technologically impossible. Perhaps someone with more knowledge knows if it's possible to give an authenticated order along the lines of "if you don't hear back from us in an hour, launch all your missiles." I've never heard of such a thing but there are at least two former submariners here on hn, so...
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > the subs don't need to be ready to retaliate immediately to be an effective deterrent They do in the US system! If you don't retaliate immediately then you're dead, and so you can't send the order to fire, so you can't retaliate at all. In the UK system you don't need to retaliate immediately as authority to fire is delegated to the commander - no magic codes like in the US.
roywiggins 7y ago
The UK famously has a formal system for this: the letters of last resort. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort

chrisseaton 7y ago

> To be fair, the subs are not 100% isolated when submerged. Obviously - they wouldn't be any use if you couldn't tell them to fire their missiles while they were submerged, would they?

leetcrew 7y ago
the subs don't need to be ready to retaliate immediately to be an effective deterrent. part of the strategic value of nuclear-armed subs is that the opponent can't destroy all of your launching capabilities in a first strike, even if they think they've located all your land-based sites. real-time communication with subs is probably only necessary to rapidly coordinate a first strike, or to specifically order them not to fire in an ambiguous situation.
- justin66 7y ago
  In the United States, at least, ballistic missile submarines that never receive an authenticated launch order will not launch their missiles. It's meant to be technologically impossible. Perhaps someone with more knowledge knows if it's possible to give an authenticated order along the lines of "if you don't hear back from us in an hour, launch all your missiles." I've never heard of such a thing but there are at least two former submariners here on hn, so...
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > the subs don't need to be ready to retaliate immediately to be an effective deterrent They do in the US system! If you don't retaliate immediately then you're dead, and so you can't send the order to fire, so you can't retaliate at all. In the UK system you don't need to retaliate immediately as authority to fire is delegated to the commander - no magic codes like in the US.

roywiggins 7y ago

The UK famously has a formal system for this: the letters of last resort. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_of_last_resort