8 ms·

Where I live what he did is a fairly serious criminal offence.

by gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago

adwww 7y ago
Waves in European...
- usui 7y ago
  What does this mean?
  - cheeze 7y ago
    adwww is implying that this would be illegal in EU (unsure if that is true or not) and is "greeting" the other poster saying "hey, I'm European too"
    - adwww 7y ago
      > this would be illegal in EU Not quite, but privacy rules that protect employees from overzealous employers are common in most European nations (EU or not), to varying degrees.
  - sbarre 7y ago
    I believe he's referencing European privacy laws in an unnecessarily oblique manner.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - bmn__ 7y ago
    It's a snowclone/memetic mutation of the "Laughs in Spanish" meme. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/laughs-in-spanish https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/laughs-in-spanish
- tnolet 7y ago
  In Dutch law and pretty sure German law an employee has the right to privacy. This extends to the personal use of company supplied equipment.
ianai 7y ago
It appears to be standard practice everywhere in corporate America.
- californical 7y ago
  It's standard practice if you agree to it in your employment contract.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    And if you don't, you generally don't get employed.
    - jlarocco 7y ago
      That's not true. I've been working in software for almost 20 years and have never had spyware like this installed on my PCs. I've worked for companies with over 70k employees, down to start ups with fewer than 100. Both in office and remote. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's definitely not normal, and I would personally never work under those conditions.
      - novok 7y ago
        As a contractor or a full time employee at the 70k people companies? Was it in the past 10 years? If you used a company provided computer, did you investigate what was running? Did you go beyond the typical process manager and look into the kernel modules list? They often don't disclose explicitly that this stuff is running, because it rightfully creeps people out and the 'security' types don't want people to know.
        HenryBemis 7y ago
        Contractor here, I mainly work on mega-big corporations. I always check what run on my PC. I never use the work machines for anything personal. FFS I don't even use their guest wifi. I stick to my data plan. I have noticed the last few years that BlueCoat is on the rise. From some article a couple of months back I read that the company/Fund that owned BC also bought Sophos.
sbarre 7y ago
Not in 1998 it wasn't.
gambiting 7y ago
Is it? What kind of crime would it fall under, and where is that?
- gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
  Norwegian privacy law.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    "privacy" is not a crime, you need to be more specific. I would maybe understand if the employer was taking pictures of the employee with a webcam, but they were taking screenshots of the machine owned by the company - how is there any expectation of privacy if you're using company equipment?
    - gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
      I updated comment.
    - lodovic 7y ago
      The toilet is company equipment, too.
      - gambiting 7y ago
        There is an expectation of privacy when using the bathroom though. There isn't when using a company issued computer, your employeer controls all the software on it, controls the network traffic - why would anyone have an expectation that what they use it for remains private? It's like there's no expectation of privacy when using an industrial lathe - it's meant for a specific purpose, if you use it for private purposes while at work, you shouldn't be expecting that to remain hidden from your employeer.
        Symbiote 7y ago
        If I take a personal note using a company-issued pen, must that be disclosed to my employer? It's not black and white, and many people will have some expectation of privacy when using company-provided equipment.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
No where is this a criminal offense in the USA. In fact, “spy software” installed on company computers is widely common.
- tzm 7y ago
  Spying on your employee, or using covert monitoring tactics, is rarely legal. Not sure on the criminality, but privacy laws are enforceable. Also, there's a distinction between monitoring and spying. Ex: California Social Media Law (2013) https://readwrite.com/2013/01/15/californias-new-privacy-laws-stop-employers-from-social-snooping/ https://readwrite.com/2013/01/15/californias-new-privacy-law...
  - novok 7y ago
    They install cameras everywhere, they have a full rootkit on your machine, they log every network interaction and email/chat and they let themselves do it through 100s of pages of policy documents that you have to sign as a condition of employment. It might as well be covert in practice.
    - agkkeoo 7y ago
      Using snooping software for recording of all command lines, including arguments, is common practice at many companies. Also when network connections are recorded it does not stop at a list of ips, surveillance software commonly also provide easy-to-consume search facilities and cross reference capabilities, dashboards including comprehensive history and supplied annotation, i.e can tell when and how often you visited facebook.com, what you looked at, how much time you have spent at non-essential sites, and of course it also does this when you're at home using your employer's laptop for WFH or anything else. The same is true when using a company phone when travelling, it can not only tell your employer where you're staying currently, but also where you usually stay at your holidays. One such software is ms atp, if you have "Advanced Threat Protection" installed, it does occur. I would be surprised if it holds up in any EU court, because when I worked with development of similar software, long before gdpr, it did not.
  - 7y ago
lmilcin 7y ago
If this was 90s then as I remember there were not yet standards to deal with this kind of problem. Actually, thinking about this now, I don't even remember they existed this type of software in 90s but I might be mistaken.
- mathgeek 7y ago
  It definitely existed in some form by the late 90's. I recall very basic surveillance and remote control software being installed on school machines back then.
- na85 7y ago
  l0pht's Back Orifice tool (see: spyware) existed back then.
  - sbarre 7y ago
    I think this might actually have been what he used. I am actually still friends with the guy (we were both quite young back then, and you learn from your mistakes), and I tease him about this incident at least every few years.
onetimemanytime 7y ago
prob not if you agree to it. You are getting paid to work, the computer is owned by the company so ...
cfv 7y ago
On this previous company we used to get a network message on every login explaining to us that since this was company hardware there was no such thing as an expectation of privacy. They would install all kinds of stuff to monitor our computers, and continuously require explanation on why we installed this or that tool. It wasn't fun.

Where I live what he did is a fairly serious criminal offence.

adwww 7y ago

Waves in European...

usui 7y ago
What does this mean?
- cheeze 7y ago
  adwww is implying that this would be illegal in EU (unsure if that is true or not) and is "greeting" the other poster saying "hey, I'm European too"
  - adwww 7y ago
    > this would be illegal in EU Not quite, but privacy rules that protect employees from overzealous employers are common in most European nations (EU or not), to varying degrees.
- sbarre 7y ago
  I believe he's referencing European privacy laws in an unnecessarily oblique manner.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bmn__ 7y ago
  It's a snowclone/memetic mutation of the "Laughs in Spanish" meme. https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/laughs-in-spanish https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/laughs-in-spanish
tnolet 7y ago
In Dutch law and pretty sure German law an employee has the right to privacy. This extends to the personal use of company supplied equipment.

ianai 7y ago

It appears to be standard practice everywhere in corporate America.

californical 7y ago
It's standard practice if you agree to it in your employment contract.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  And if you don't, you generally don't get employed.
  - jlarocco 7y ago
    That's not true. I've been working in software for almost 20 years and have never had spyware like this installed on my PCs. I've worked for companies with over 70k employees, down to start ups with fewer than 100. Both in office and remote. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's definitely not normal, and I would personally never work under those conditions.
    - novok 7y ago
      As a contractor or a full time employee at the 70k people companies? Was it in the past 10 years? If you used a company provided computer, did you investigate what was running? Did you go beyond the typical process manager and look into the kernel modules list? They often don't disclose explicitly that this stuff is running, because it rightfully creeps people out and the 'security' types don't want people to know.
      - HenryBemis 7y ago
        Contractor here, I mainly work on mega-big corporations. I always check what run on my PC. I never use the work machines for anything personal. FFS I don't even use their guest wifi. I stick to my data plan. I have noticed the last few years that BlueCoat is on the rise. From some article a couple of months back I read that the company/Fund that owned BC also bought Sophos.

sbarre 7y ago

Not in 1998 it wasn't.

gambiting 7y ago

Is it? What kind of crime would it fall under, and where is that?

gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
Norwegian privacy law.
- gambiting 7y ago
  "privacy" is not a crime, you need to be more specific. I would maybe understand if the employer was taking pictures of the employee with a webcam, but they were taking screenshots of the machine owned by the company - how is there any expectation of privacy if you're using company equipment?
  - gvjddbnvdrbv 7y ago
    I updated comment.
  - lodovic 7y ago
    The toilet is company equipment, too.
    - gambiting 7y ago
      There is an expectation of privacy when using the bathroom though. There isn't when using a company issued computer, your employeer controls all the software on it, controls the network traffic - why would anyone have an expectation that what they use it for remains private? It's like there's no expectation of privacy when using an industrial lathe - it's meant for a specific purpose, if you use it for private purposes while at work, you shouldn't be expecting that to remain hidden from your employeer.
      - Symbiote 7y ago
        If I take a personal note using a company-issued pen, must that be disclosed to my employer? It's not black and white, and many people will have some expectation of privacy when using company-provided equipment.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

No where is this a criminal offense in the USA. In fact, “spy software” installed on company computers is widely common.

tzm 7y ago
Spying on your employee, or using covert monitoring tactics, is rarely legal. Not sure on the criminality, but privacy laws are enforceable. Also, there's a distinction between monitoring and spying. Ex: California Social Media Law (2013) https://readwrite.com/2013/01/15/californias-new-privacy-laws-stop-employers-from-social-snooping/ https://readwrite.com/2013/01/15/californias-new-privacy-law...
- novok 7y ago
  They install cameras everywhere, they have a full rootkit on your machine, they log every network interaction and email/chat and they let themselves do it through 100s of pages of policy documents that you have to sign as a condition of employment. It might as well be covert in practice.
  - agkkeoo 7y ago
    Using snooping software for recording of all command lines, including arguments, is common practice at many companies. Also when network connections are recorded it does not stop at a list of ips, surveillance software commonly also provide easy-to-consume search facilities and cross reference capabilities, dashboards including comprehensive history and supplied annotation, i.e can tell when and how often you visited facebook.com, what you looked at, how much time you have spent at non-essential sites, and of course it also does this when you're at home using your employer's laptop for WFH or anything else. The same is true when using a company phone when travelling, it can not only tell your employer where you're staying currently, but also where you usually stay at your holidays. One such software is ms atp, if you have "Advanced Threat Protection" installed, it does occur. I would be surprised if it holds up in any EU court, because when I worked with development of similar software, long before gdpr, it did not.
- 7y ago

lmilcin 7y ago

If this was 90s then as I remember there were not yet standards to deal with this kind of problem. Actually, thinking about this now, I don't even remember they existed this type of software in 90s but I might be mistaken.

mathgeek 7y ago
It definitely existed in some form by the late 90's. I recall very basic surveillance and remote control software being installed on school machines back then.
na85 7y ago
l0pht's Back Orifice tool (see: spyware) existed back then.
- sbarre 7y ago
  I think this might actually have been what he used. I am actually still friends with the guy (we were both quite young back then, and you learn from your mistakes), and I tease him about this incident at least every few years.

onetimemanytime 7y ago

prob not if you agree to it. You are getting paid to work, the computer is owned by the company so ...

cfv 7y ago

On this previous company we used to get a network message on every login explaining to us that since this was company hardware there was no such thing as an expectation of privacy. They would install all kinds of stuff to monitor our computers, and continuously require explanation on why we installed this or that tool. It wasn't fun.