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I don't understand how an incorrect assumption can be used as a criticism? Just because you assume something, isn't going to make it true. The problems you mi

by lwhi 16y ago

I don't understand how an incorrect assumption can be used as a criticism? Just because you assume something, isn't going to make it true. The problems you might want to solve may be simple - but problems that others might want to solve might be more complex. It's not perfect, but CSS actually works reasonably well in a variety of situations. My main concerns were based around browser inconsistencies, but things are much better in 2011 (compared to 2005). There's a strong meme that reinforces the idea that 'CSS is rubbish' - but I think it's actually counter-intuitive to spread it. Basically, all we end up with are a lot of grumbling people who believe it's not worth learning - and don't.

danenania 16y ago
It isn't about assumptions being correct or incorrect. I'm saying that if possible, a language should adhere to the concepts and vocabulary that people bring to the table instead of inventing its own, unless there are major benefits to be had in doing so. I see no benefits to the layout model of CSS over that of Flex (quite the contrary), and the vocabulary used in Flex means I understand how the system works immediately without having to look anything up because I know what horizontal, vertical, gaps, and constraints are already from my everyday non-technical experience, whereas I have no idea what an 'inline-block' is, and even when I look it up at w3schools, I get "The element will generate a block box, laid out as an inline box", which is gibberish without further research. Clearly learning CSS is non-negotiable for being a successful web developer. I'm not contesting that fact, I'm lamenting it.
- lwhi 16y ago
  Being able to specify that an element is placed within a document flow (inline) is useful. Conversely being able to specify that a (block)-level element has its own position (relative or absolute) is also useful. Sometimes it's useful for an element to be placed 'inline', but also share some of the properties that a block-level element has (like width and height) - so 'inline-block' has its place too. I think part of the problem is, there are no every-day terms that can be used to illustrate a lot of the concepts that CSS makes use of. If simple terms were chosen, the ability to do a lot of things would be crippled. Only simple things would be possible - and this wouldn't suit everyone. But I do agree that it would nice if everything made more sense from the get go.
  - danenania 16y ago
    I don't think those properties should be thrown out. As someone said they are useful for what they were meant to do: style documents. But they're very clumsy when it comes to laying out applications. CSS (and/or HTML) simply needs a friendlier and more direct interface for this purpose.
    - lwhi 16y ago
      That's why we have frameworks :)

by lwhi 16y ago

danenania 16y ago

It isn't about assumptions being correct or incorrect. I'm saying that if possible, a language should adhere to the concepts and vocabulary that people bring to the table instead of inventing its own, unless there are major benefits to be had in doing so. I see no benefits to the layout model of CSS over that of Flex (quite the contrary), and the vocabulary used in Flex means I understand how the system works immediately without having to look anything up because I know what horizontal, vertical, gaps, and constraints are already from my everyday non-technical experience, whereas I have no idea what an 'inline-block' is, and even when I look it up at w3schools, I get "The element will generate a block box, laid out as an inline box", which is gibberish without further research. Clearly learning CSS is non-negotiable for being a successful web developer. I'm not contesting that fact, I'm lamenting it.

lwhi 16y ago
Being able to specify that an element is placed within a document flow (inline) is useful. Conversely being able to specify that a (block)-level element has its own position (relative or absolute) is also useful. Sometimes it's useful for an element to be placed 'inline', but also share some of the properties that a block-level element has (like width and height) - so 'inline-block' has its place too. I think part of the problem is, there are no every-day terms that can be used to illustrate a lot of the concepts that CSS makes use of. If simple terms were chosen, the ability to do a lot of things would be crippled. Only simple things would be possible - and this wouldn't suit everyone. But I do agree that it would nice if everything made more sense from the get go.
- danenania 16y ago
  I don't think those properties should be thrown out. As someone said they are useful for what they were meant to do: style documents. But they're very clumsy when it comes to laying out applications. CSS (and/or HTML) simply needs a friendlier and more direct interface for this purpose.
  - lwhi 16y ago
    That's why we have frameworks :)