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When trying to protect people (or, more accurately, trying not to hurt people) in low-information or high-stress situations (both very common for abusive situat

by kick 7y ago

When trying to protect people (or, more accurately, trying not to hurt people) in low-information or high-stress situations (both very common for abusive situations), you can't throw something that essential into the second paragraph of a document that few outside of pundits will ever read. The goal would be for the exception to be noticeable-enough that it ended up in most headlines. How to achieve that is an interesting thing to think about, but it's what should have been done.

zepto 7y ago
Realistically, people who stay in abusive relationships were already stuck. The problem wasn’t cause by the lockdown. Only compounded. Changing the presentation of a document won’t change this. What would, is a society that doesn’t tolerate the problem, and provides material support for the abused. We are a long way from that.
- cies 7y ago
  Someone who cannot leave a relationship in which abuse did not just take place once, but repeated (hence "abusive"); when what should society do that it should not already be doing to everyone? * ensure you have food and shelter * ensure reasonably safe * ensure that children are admitted to some school * ensure you dont sink into deep poverty When a society cannot help on these points, what use is requesting these for the small sub category of marginalized that are so because of an abusive relationship, that they themselves are usually to some extend are continued to be pulled back into?
  - zepto 7y ago
    You are right. There is no use requesting these things for a small group of marginalized people. Until society provides them for everyone, it cannot tackle the problem of abuse.
  - 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
    Free stuff for everyone enables a level of governmental abuse that makes domestic violence seem tame in comparison. The sad state of affairs is many abused people are gaslighted and brainwashed so they stay with the abuser. These forms of coercive mental conditioning can last a lifetime. It happened to a close friend of mine’s sister. She ended up joining a bizarre religious cult where the leader would find young people and brainwash them into staying with the cult. I attended one of these gatherings and they attempted to recruit me as well. They’d send multiple young women over wearing very revealing clothing, extolling how great the cult was, how great the leader was, etc. But these types of mind control schemes don’t work me.
    - cies 7y ago
      > Free stuff for everyone enables a level of governmental abuse that makes domestic violence seem tame in comparison. The sad Please enlighten me. Given for instance the enormeous amount, 6.4 trillion, is spend by the US on wars the last 20 year. That's about 888 million per day, everyday over the last 20 year. And who benefitted? You tell me. Now lets divide that by the number of americans, it comes down to 80,000 dollars per month per american. That could have been awarded as a social program to increase the happiness of peolpe, or that needs to be paid by those same people in either taxes or inflation (or printing money, aka quantative easing, as bankers refer to it). Now you compare that --in my view rather utopian view-- to domestica violence, and conclude that DV is worse! Dude, you may have some hatred to anything socialist, but this is next level. I know a good one. I take the 80k/month, you the abuse. Pfff...
      - 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
        > Please enlighten me. Given for instance the enormeous amount, 6.4 trillion, is spend by the US on wars the last 20 year. That's about 888 million per day, everyday over the last 20 year. And who benefitted? You tell me. The Great Leap Forward killed millions of people. Same in Cambodia. It was based on an ideology that the government will provide everything for you. But your loyalty will determine if you live or die. Even in the case when one was loyal, death could still happen in these brutal regimes. I agree with you in spirit that we shouldn’t be spending anything on war. Non-interventionism was when America prospered the most. If you just let the free market work and don’t get involved in costly wars, people become productive and there are plenty of jobs. Your narrow view that those in authority will reward you for loyalty will change one day. Trust me. I just hope on that day, you are willing to do what is necessary when nobody in power will defend you.
- tomp 7y ago
  Which (developed Western) society tolerates the problem? The core crux of the problem is literally that the society can't really do anything - the victim has to leave, out of their own volition, and that rarely happens (people who leave quickly aren't the problem, they don't get stuck in abusive situations in the first place). I mean maybe this was a problem 30 years ago, but I've been bombarded with images, ads, information about abuse and victim shelters etc. my whole life, so it seems to me that society is pretty much doing the most it can. Edit: seems to have hit a sore spot... look, I'm just annoyed everytime someone says "society tolerates slavery/trafficking/homelessness/poverty/rape/cancer/child abuse/organised crime/violence/..." - just because we haven't come up with a perfect solution to the problem (usually because the problem isn't as simple as some people imagine) doesn't mean that the society tolerates the problem...
  - zepto 7y ago
    Sure the victim has to leave. But do you know what happens when they do? Obviously, shelters have to be advertised because otherwise people wouldn’t know about them. But it’s pretty obvious that the presence of ads for shelters says nothing about whether society is actually providing a way out for the abused.

by kick 7y ago

zepto 7y ago

Realistically, people who stay in abusive relationships were already stuck. The problem wasn’t cause by the lockdown. Only compounded. Changing the presentation of a document won’t change this. What would, is a society that doesn’t tolerate the problem, and provides material support for the abused. We are a long way from that.

cies 7y ago
Someone who cannot leave a relationship in which abuse did not just take place once, but repeated (hence "abusive"); when what should society do that it should not already be doing to everyone? * ensure you have food and shelter * ensure reasonably safe * ensure that children are admitted to some school * ensure you dont sink into deep poverty When a society cannot help on these points, what use is requesting these for the small sub category of marginalized that are so because of an abusive relationship, that they themselves are usually to some extend are continued to be pulled back into?
- zepto 7y ago
  You are right. There is no use requesting these things for a small group of marginalized people. Until society provides them for everyone, it cannot tackle the problem of abuse.
- 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
  Free stuff for everyone enables a level of governmental abuse that makes domestic violence seem tame in comparison. The sad state of affairs is many abused people are gaslighted and brainwashed so they stay with the abuser. These forms of coercive mental conditioning can last a lifetime. It happened to a close friend of mine’s sister. She ended up joining a bizarre religious cult where the leader would find young people and brainwash them into staying with the cult. I attended one of these gatherings and they attempted to recruit me as well. They’d send multiple young women over wearing very revealing clothing, extolling how great the cult was, how great the leader was, etc. But these types of mind control schemes don’t work me.
  - cies 7y ago
    > Free stuff for everyone enables a level of governmental abuse that makes domestic violence seem tame in comparison. The sad Please enlighten me. Given for instance the enormeous amount, 6.4 trillion, is spend by the US on wars the last 20 year. That's about 888 million per day, everyday over the last 20 year. And who benefitted? You tell me. Now lets divide that by the number of americans, it comes down to 80,000 dollars per month per american. That could have been awarded as a social program to increase the happiness of peolpe, or that needs to be paid by those same people in either taxes or inflation (or printing money, aka quantative easing, as bankers refer to it). Now you compare that --in my view rather utopian view-- to domestica violence, and conclude that DV is worse! Dude, you may have some hatred to anything socialist, but this is next level. I know a good one. I take the 80k/month, you the abuse. Pfff...
    - 0x8BADF00D 7y ago
      > Please enlighten me. Given for instance the enormeous amount, 6.4 trillion, is spend by the US on wars the last 20 year. That's about 888 million per day, everyday over the last 20 year. And who benefitted? You tell me. The Great Leap Forward killed millions of people. Same in Cambodia. It was based on an ideology that the government will provide everything for you. But your loyalty will determine if you live or die. Even in the case when one was loyal, death could still happen in these brutal regimes. I agree with you in spirit that we shouldn’t be spending anything on war. Non-interventionism was when America prospered the most. If you just let the free market work and don’t get involved in costly wars, people become productive and there are plenty of jobs. Your narrow view that those in authority will reward you for loyalty will change one day. Trust me. I just hope on that day, you are willing to do what is necessary when nobody in power will defend you.
tomp 7y ago
Which (developed Western) society tolerates the problem? The core crux of the problem is literally that the society can't really do anything - the victim has to leave, out of their own volition, and that rarely happens (people who leave quickly aren't the problem, they don't get stuck in abusive situations in the first place). I mean maybe this was a problem 30 years ago, but I've been bombarded with images, ads, information about abuse and victim shelters etc. my whole life, so it seems to me that society is pretty much doing the most it can. Edit: seems to have hit a sore spot... look, I'm just annoyed everytime someone says "society tolerates slavery/trafficking/homelessness/poverty/rape/cancer/child abuse/organised crime/violence/..." - just because we haven't come up with a perfect solution to the problem (usually because the problem isn't as simple as some people imagine) doesn't mean that the society tolerates the problem...
- zepto 7y ago
  Sure the victim has to leave. But do you know what happens when they do? Obviously, shelters have to be advertised because otherwise people wouldn’t know about them. But it’s pretty obvious that the presence of ads for shelters says nothing about whether society is actually providing a way out for the abused.