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You left out the word "lied"

by drcode 7y ago

nxc18 7y ago
There’s a big difference between a nuanced message and a lie. If you see The WHO statements as a lie, you lack the understanding of the situation needed to make a thoughtful decision, and it’s for the best that you were misled. People who read the news and get “masks don’t work” out of it should not be using masks until there are enough available for professionals who need them.
- drcode 7y ago
  If there are tons of studies showing that homemade masks prevent virus spread, almost no evidence to the contrary, and they tell people not to wear even homemade masks, I don't know what else to call it but "lying". How about I meet you half way and call it an "incompetent noble lie". https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/mobilebasic?fbclid=IwAR2McCdT07fPQfCwnSWkv1cw3zIlndMiAsU45iOmBv9fZ75L7fuhdoxlFnc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4p...
  - nxc18 7y ago
    Can you please point to where WHO is saying people shouldn’t use homemade masks? I’ve never seen that claim, but if it’s true it indeed doesn’t make sense. I’ve only seen CDC dissuade people from using surgical and N95 masks. Perhaps there’s concern that if CDC or others advise people to use homemade masks, people who actually do need N95 masks (e.g. severely immunocompromised) will think that works for them? Edit: there’s also the moral hazard aspect to consider: if people think wearing homemade masks is enough to protect them, they’re probably a lot more likely to ignore quarantine or social distancing. If the masks aren’t 100% effective and are used wrong, that could be worse than just staying in and social distancing.
    - drcode 7y ago
      "You should only wear a mask if a healthcare professional recommends it." A blanket statement against all types of masks without qualification. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
      - collinmanderson 7y ago
        Right, the CDC FAQ seems to say don't wear masks. However the CDC also says if you "think you might have COVID-19", you should "wear a facemask" "to help protect other people in your home and community." "You may need to improvise a facemask using a scarf or bandana." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/st... Seems to me we should all assume we "might have COVID-19" and therefore follow CDC's advice: wear a facemask of some kind to protect other people.
        drcode 7y ago
        BTW, that bit about the "bandana" was just added in the last week because people like me keep complaining about their guidance.
Symmetry 7y ago
From hearing nurse aquaintances talk on Facebook, listening to This Week in Virology, etc it seems that the idea that surgical masks don't protect you from getting sick is very pervasive in the western medical community. And from a medical community standpoint it's true! If you're working with sick people every day and just use a surgical mask you'll probably get sick eventually. But in the game of telephone that is horizontal knowledge transfer "Surgical masks are generally insufficient for consistent protection in a medical setting" becomes "surgical masks don't work" and then becomes "a surgical mask won't protect you when you're going to buy groceries."

You left out the word "lied"

by drcode 7y ago

You left out the word "lied"

There’s a big difference between a nuanced message and a lie. If you see The WHO statements as a lie, you lack the understanding of the situation needed to make a thoughtful decision, and it’s for the best that you were misled. People who read the news and get “masks don’t work” out of it should not be using masks until there are enough available for professionals who need them.

drcode 7y ago
If there are tons of studies showing that homemade masks prevent virus spread, almost no evidence to the contrary, and they tell people not to wear even homemade masks, I don't know what else to call it but "lying". How about I meet you half way and call it an "incompetent noble lie". https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4pt4oFDBhsC_jpblXpNtQ/mobilebasic?fbclid=IwAR2McCdT07fPQfCwnSWkv1cw3zIlndMiAsU45iOmBv9fZ75L7fuhdoxlFnc https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HLrm0pqBN_5bdyysOeoOBX4p...
- nxc18 7y ago
  Can you please point to where WHO is saying people shouldn’t use homemade masks? I’ve never seen that claim, but if it’s true it indeed doesn’t make sense. I’ve only seen CDC dissuade people from using surgical and N95 masks. Perhaps there’s concern that if CDC or others advise people to use homemade masks, people who actually do need N95 masks (e.g. severely immunocompromised) will think that works for them? Edit: there’s also the moral hazard aspect to consider: if people think wearing homemade masks is enough to protect them, they’re probably a lot more likely to ignore quarantine or social distancing. If the masks aren’t 100% effective and are used wrong, that could be worse than just staying in and social distancing.
  - drcode 7y ago
    "You should only wear a mask if a healthcare professional recommends it." A blanket statement against all types of masks without qualification. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html
    - collinmanderson 7y ago
      Right, the CDC FAQ seems to say don't wear masks. However the CDC also says if you "think you might have COVID-19", you should "wear a facemask" "to help protect other people in your home and community." "You may need to improvise a facemask using a scarf or bandana." https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/steps-when-sick.html https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/if-you-are-sick/st... Seems to me we should all assume we "might have COVID-19" and therefore follow CDC's advice: wear a facemask of some kind to protect other people.
      - drcode 7y ago
        BTW, that bit about the "bandana" was just added in the last week because people like me keep complaining about their guidance.

Symmetry 7y ago

From hearing nurse aquaintances talk on Facebook, listening to This Week in Virology, etc it seems that the idea that surgical masks don't protect you from getting sick is very pervasive in the western medical community. And from a medical community standpoint it's true! If you're working with sick people every day and just use a surgical mask you'll probably get sick eventually. But in the game of telephone that is horizontal knowledge transfer "Surgical masks are generally insufficient for consistent protection in a medical setting" becomes "surgical masks don't work" and then becomes "a surgical mask won't protect you when you're going to buy groceries."