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Do you know if there are any working examples of that in a history? The ones which work on a state level at least and are sustainable in a long term? And how wo

Do you know if there are any working examples of that in a history? The ones which work on a state level at least and are sustainable in a long term? And how would that be done democratically? Do you just vote for the expropriation and distribution of goods and property? I think I have seen it already...

lucian1900 7y ago
Cuba is probably the best example. Despite decades under illegal embargo and starting off with extreme poverty and inequality, the material condition of the people has drastically improved. The people actually own most of the means of production and distribution through a different and more direct form of democracy. Beyond that, Cuba is the only environmentally sustainable country and exports medical care to the rest of the world.
- aivisol 7y ago
  I am sorry, but Cuba is not democracy. It is "Unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist republic" (see Wikipedia) which in practical terms means no free speech, no political parties (except ruling communist), state controlled media, internet, surveillance of communication and political prisoners.
  - lucian1900 7y ago
    That is indeed what the US state and media keep saying about socialist. Consider that perhaps US capitalists have a vested interest to smear any group that opposes capitalism. Here's an explanation about Cuban democracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMsi-A56ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMsi-A56ds
    - aivisol 7y ago
      That is indeed a fact what socialism under communist party rule is. Those who have never lived under such regimes have not a slightest idea what they are talking about. This is extremely sad that our memory is so short lived and only 30 years after collapse of Soviet Union there are so many people in west thinking that the socialism as designed by soviet communists was something which should be admired now. Or, well, some think that the Soviet interpretation was bit bad, and with a little modern tweaking, it can be made right. Rest assured, that is totally false. The regime is not a cent better than fascist regime, just copy/paste few terms and names. There are millions of people from nations between Germany and Russia which have spent 50+ years under communist regime, and you can ask them if they ever wanted to return to those times. I don't think you will find many. I am pretty sure same applies to Cuba or Venezuela, as their regimes are built around same Marxism-Leninism ideology.
      - lucian1900 7y ago
        I’m Eastern European. This idea that socialism is anything at all like fascism is disgustingly chauvinistic. It is based on the notion that only the West could possibly have freedom and anything different elsewhere must clearly be evil. Don’t fall for the propaganda. I have talked to hundreds of people that lived in socialist countries. There are several surveys of Eastern Europeans on the subject. The vast majority of people (the workers) that experience socialism want it.
        aivisol 7y ago
        I am Eastern European and I actually lived under Soviet socialism when I was an adult already so I experienced it first hand. The number of people died in Gulag in our country was way higher than the number of people died in fascist concentration camps. Obviously our world views are oceans apart, sorry to learn that.
        lucian1900 7y ago
        > The number of people died in Gulag in our country was way higher than the number of people died in fascist concentration camps Yet when the USSR was overthrown, there were barely any political prisoners to be found. Your claim has no proof to back it up, unless you mean "The Gulag Archipelago" by Solzhenitsyn. That is widely known by historians to be unreliable fiction.

lucian1900 7y ago

Cuba is probably the best example. Despite decades under illegal embargo and starting off with extreme poverty and inequality, the material condition of the people has drastically improved. The people actually own most of the means of production and distribution through a different and more direct form of democracy. Beyond that, Cuba is the only environmentally sustainable country and exports medical care to the rest of the world.

aivisol 7y ago
I am sorry, but Cuba is not democracy. It is "Unitary Marxist–Leninist one-party socialist republic" (see Wikipedia) which in practical terms means no free speech, no political parties (except ruling communist), state controlled media, internet, surveillance of communication and political prisoners.
- lucian1900 7y ago
  That is indeed what the US state and media keep saying about socialist. Consider that perhaps US capitalists have a vested interest to smear any group that opposes capitalism. Here's an explanation about Cuban democracy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMsi-A56ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2aMsi-A56ds
  - aivisol 7y ago
    That is indeed a fact what socialism under communist party rule is. Those who have never lived under such regimes have not a slightest idea what they are talking about. This is extremely sad that our memory is so short lived and only 30 years after collapse of Soviet Union there are so many people in west thinking that the socialism as designed by soviet communists was something which should be admired now. Or, well, some think that the Soviet interpretation was bit bad, and with a little modern tweaking, it can be made right. Rest assured, that is totally false. The regime is not a cent better than fascist regime, just copy/paste few terms and names. There are millions of people from nations between Germany and Russia which have spent 50+ years under communist regime, and you can ask them if they ever wanted to return to those times. I don't think you will find many. I am pretty sure same applies to Cuba or Venezuela, as their regimes are built around same Marxism-Leninism ideology.
    - lucian1900 7y ago
      I’m Eastern European. This idea that socialism is anything at all like fascism is disgustingly chauvinistic. It is based on the notion that only the West could possibly have freedom and anything different elsewhere must clearly be evil. Don’t fall for the propaganda. I have talked to hundreds of people that lived in socialist countries. There are several surveys of Eastern Europeans on the subject. The vast majority of people (the workers) that experience socialism want it.
      - aivisol 7y ago
        I am Eastern European and I actually lived under Soviet socialism when I was an adult already so I experienced it first hand. The number of people died in Gulag in our country was way higher than the number of people died in fascist concentration camps. Obviously our world views are oceans apart, sorry to learn that.
        lucian1900 7y ago
        > The number of people died in Gulag in our country was way higher than the number of people died in fascist concentration camps Yet when the USSR was overthrown, there were barely any political prisoners to be found. Your claim has no proof to back it up, unless you mean "The Gulag Archipelago" by Solzhenitsyn. That is widely known by historians to be unreliable fiction.