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I think of woodworking as a very similar discussion. People would wear N95s when working with a shit-ton of visible particulates, but otherwise are constantly l

I think of woodworking as a very similar discussion. People would wear N95s when working with a shit-ton of visible particulates, but otherwise are constantly leaving their lungs unprotected. The resultant progressive loss of long function is pronounced. But try to convince woodworkers that N95s should be a de facto daily driver. “My daddy worked wood all his life and was healthy as a horse until the day he dropped dead”

PragmaticPulp 7y ago
Agreed on the dangers of sawdust, but in my experience most hobbyist woodworkers these days are very aware of dust and particulate management. Particle counters are reasonably cheap, so many woodworkers use them to measure and optimize the air cleaning systems in their woodworking areas. It helps that the most popular Woodworking YouTubers frequently produce videos about improvements to their dust collection setups. It also helps that cheap Chinese air filtration units have become widely available. Dust collection and air filtration are probably the most common tool talk in my local woodworking groups. In contrast, it's rare to see electronics hobbyists taking air filtration seriously. Kudos to Ben Heck for writing about it.
tibbon 7y ago
I think too many people (myself included) have thought incorrect things like, "Ah, wood is natural and can't hurt you". Not that wood is any more natural than lead, or arsenic. But it doesn't seem bad like inhaling smoke from things... and yet, it clearly is not good for you in the long term!
- dotancohen 7y ago
  Whenever I hear that something is "natural" and thus not a health danger, I ask the person if they would bite into a camel turd. Those are natural too. Don't even get me started on "chemical free".
- hammock 7y ago
  Don't forget treated wood does have arsenic...and fumes from poly, stains and varnishes can be pretty bad.
  - rsync 7y ago
    I don't believe that treated (or, "pressure treated") wood is produced with arsenic anymore. I believe it (CCA: chromated copper arsenate) was phased out in 2003. I still treat the cutting of, and the sawdust from, treated wood more carefully - just out of habit - but I think it is fairly benign these days unless you get specially sourced wood for marine applications ... which is not what you're going to find down at the local lumber yard ...
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- lonelappde 7y ago
  I think it's just that people are literally and metaphorically blind to dangers that are invisible.
HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago
Now if I could just get any kind of particulate-reducing mask for a semi-reasonable price...
hilbert42 7y ago
"People would wear N95s when working with a shit-ton of visible particulates, but otherwise are constantly leaving their lungs unprotected." Correct. And I say that as both a solderer and woodworker! In fact, woodworking often scares me more than soldering (as with wood there are more variables involved). Some particulates from wood are down outright dangerous—in fact, many different types of woods can either cause cancer or serious lung irritation. The reasons are that (a) the wood itself can have microscopic hook-like structures that embed themselves into one's lungs and they're sufficiently resilient not to be dissolved by body enzymes etc. before they do damage, and (b) some woods contain toxic chemicals, terpenes etc. which plants usually manufacture to deter or destroy pests. Terpenes are a large class of organic chemicals with a wide range of properties, some are relatively innocuous to humans and others can be harmful, in fact, some terpenes are considered a cancer risk. The flux rosin used in solder consists mostly of terpenes, so if you're one of those who worries about using Pb/Sn solder then you've more than just the lead to worry about. There's an image of natural resins here on this Wiki terpene page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpene Here's a few references about wood and wood dust toxicity: The Wood Database: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/ https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-a... and Wood Dust Exposure and Lung Cancer Risk: https://www.verywellhealth.com/wood-dust-and-lung-cancer-whos-at-risk-3971878 https://www.verywellhealth.com/wood-dust-and-lung-cancer-who.... There are many others. To protect yourself always use an N95 (aka P2) mask when sanding, sawing or doing fine routing—any work that produces fine wood dust/particulates. What about aerosol terpenes produced in the cuttings you ask? I'd suggest that if you are wearing a mask then the volatiles that actually get through the mask will unlikely cause you any problems (the practical consensus is that it's the fine particulates that lodge in your lungs that actually cause most of the danger). Of course, the same goes for cement dust, other powdered minerals including even talc and of course asbestos. Over the years, I've done a great deal of soldering and it's mainly been with Pb/Sn solder. Normally, for casual work 60/40 or eutectic are my choice as lead-free requires more care/setup and closer temperature tolerances, and there is a higher risk of damaging components with excessive heat. For PWA [circuit boards] production runs etc. it's a no-brainer, you should always use lead-free solders. These days it's dead easy to use lead-free on PWA production runs as the processes can now be held to such close tolerances. When soldering, braising or welding always remember to apply the cleanliness is next to godliness rule. Always use masks, keep the area well ventilated, and always wash your hands especially so after handling Pb (lead) and finally vacuum up all the metal dust and other crap with a vacuum cleaner that has a HEP filter.

PragmaticPulp 7y ago

Agreed on the dangers of sawdust, but in my experience most hobbyist woodworkers these days are very aware of dust and particulate management. Particle counters are reasonably cheap, so many woodworkers use them to measure and optimize the air cleaning systems in their woodworking areas. It helps that the most popular Woodworking YouTubers frequently produce videos about improvements to their dust collection setups. It also helps that cheap Chinese air filtration units have become widely available. Dust collection and air filtration are probably the most common tool talk in my local woodworking groups. In contrast, it's rare to see electronics hobbyists taking air filtration seriously. Kudos to Ben Heck for writing about it.

tibbon 7y ago

I think too many people (myself included) have thought incorrect things like, "Ah, wood is natural and can't hurt you". Not that wood is any more natural than lead, or arsenic. But it doesn't seem bad like inhaling smoke from things... and yet, it clearly is not good for you in the long term!

dotancohen 7y ago
Whenever I hear that something is "natural" and thus not a health danger, I ask the person if they would bite into a camel turd. Those are natural too. Don't even get me started on "chemical free".
hammock 7y ago
Don't forget treated wood does have arsenic...and fumes from poly, stains and varnishes can be pretty bad.
- rsync 7y ago
  I don't believe that treated (or, "pressure treated") wood is produced with arsenic anymore. I believe it (CCA: chromated copper arsenate) was phased out in 2003. I still treat the cutting of, and the sawdust from, treated wood more carefully - just out of habit - but I think it is fairly benign these days unless you get specially sourced wood for marine applications ... which is not what you're going to find down at the local lumber yard ...
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lonelappde 7y ago
I think it's just that people are literally and metaphorically blind to dangers that are invisible.

HeWhoLurksLate 7y ago

Now if I could just get any kind of particulate-reducing mask for a semi-reasonable price...

hilbert42 7y ago

"People would wear N95s when working with a shit-ton of visible particulates, but otherwise are constantly leaving their lungs unprotected." Correct. And I say that as both a solderer and woodworker! In fact, woodworking often scares me more than soldering (as with wood there are more variables involved). Some particulates from wood are down outright dangerous—in fact, many different types of woods can either cause cancer or serious lung irritation. The reasons are that (a) the wood itself can have microscopic hook-like structures that embed themselves into one's lungs and they're sufficiently resilient not to be dissolved by body enzymes etc. before they do damage, and (b) some woods contain toxic chemicals, terpenes etc. which plants usually manufacture to deter or destroy pests. Terpenes are a large class of organic chemicals with a wide range of properties, some are relatively innocuous to humans and others can be harmful, in fact, some terpenes are considered a cancer risk. The flux rosin used in solder consists mostly of terpenes, so if you're one of those who worries about using Pb/Sn solder then you've more than just the lead to worry about. There's an image of natural resins here on this Wiki terpene page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpene https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpene Here's a few references about wood and wood dust toxicity: The Wood Database: https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-and-toxicity/ https://www.wood-database.com/wood-articles/wood-allergies-a... and Wood Dust Exposure and Lung Cancer Risk: https://www.verywellhealth.com/wood-dust-and-lung-cancer-whos-at-risk-3971878 https://www.verywellhealth.com/wood-dust-and-lung-cancer-who.... There are many others. To protect yourself always use an N95 (aka P2) mask when sanding, sawing or doing fine routing—any work that produces fine wood dust/particulates. What about aerosol terpenes produced in the cuttings you ask? I'd suggest that if you are wearing a mask then the volatiles that actually get through the mask will unlikely cause you any problems (the practical consensus is that it's the fine particulates that lodge in your lungs that actually cause most of the danger). Of course, the same goes for cement dust, other powdered minerals including even talc and of course asbestos. Over the years, I've done a great deal of soldering and it's mainly been with Pb/Sn solder. Normally, for casual work 60/40 or eutectic are my choice as lead-free requires more care/setup and closer temperature tolerances, and there is a higher risk of damaging components with excessive heat. For PWA [circuit boards] production runs etc. it's a no-brainer, you should always use lead-free solders. These days it's dead easy to use lead-free on PWA production runs as the processes can now be held to such close tolerances. When soldering, braising or welding always remember to apply the cleanliness is next to godliness rule. Always use masks, keep the area well ventilated, and always wash your hands especially so after handling Pb (lead) and finally vacuum up all the metal dust and other crap with a vacuum cleaner that has a HEP filter.