3 ms·
Ask HN: When to leave a startup?
There are many stories or questions from the entrepreneurs point of view about when to tough it out or when to cut and run. But how about as an employee at a startup? At what point are the warning signs bad enough that its time to pack your bags?
I'm a very early employee at a startup (full-time before the founders were full-time). We have a product and have annual revenues near $500k. On the tech side of things, I love what I do. On the people side, it's miserable. On the compensation side, needs improvement (neither options, nor salary are industry-competitive).
The founder/management team is shockingly incompetent. We are a model example of all the negative traits of founder's syndrome. ( http://managementhelp.org/misc/founders.htm ) There is a culture of blame. The same mistakes happen again and again. Customers are treated poorly (it is a testament only to our niche that new customers keep calling us.) We do not advertise because, as the founder said, "What if someone ordered 100!?!? Then what would we do?"
After a recent $1M investment, they actually said, "Now that we have money, things will be better." Things are not better, but easy access to cash has certainly covered up the worst issues for the moment.
So how about it? When is it bad enough that an employee should jump ship? For what reasons would it be worth toughing it out?
- jsavimbi 16y agoI'm currently at a startup and this is probably my fifth or sixth, I cannot remember, and I've experienced pretty much everything you've listed: people suck, pay is wonky, managerial incompetence, hush money. Those traits are germain to any business, but in the startup game you have to understand that you're making certain sacrifices in exchange for greater reward at the end. If you see no end, then you have to ask yourself the following: Do I share the company's vision? If the answer is "no", then pack your bags (fire up resume, get job first) because life will not get better for you even if the company succeeds in meeting their short or long term goals. If the answer is 'yes', then you have to realistically determine if your personal success is tied to the company's. Will you be compensated adequately once the company achieves success (sale, merger, continued investment)? Is that compensation commensurate with what you'd be making at a similar firm? What is your opportunity cost for not pursuing those same goals (cashing out) at a similar firm? And, realistically speaking, can you remain at the company without losing your mind or getting fired in order to complete your personal goals (vesting period)? In most cases, any given Friday is a good time to leave a startup as you'll have an entire weekend to relax and get over leaving an unhappy situation and begin to work on your future. Most people are tied into their job and don't leave because they're unsure if they'll be able to obtain similar or better employment elsewhere on their own. If you have the skills to work somewhere else and you've proven that you can do your current job, I'd start floating my resume out there and test the waters. It's best to do it while still employed (note to self)! And when asked, "why are you unhappy in your current position" simply respond "I no longer share their vision."
- geek96 16y agoThanks for the feedback! One issue is that there is no company vision. When I ask about the company's goals, founder #1 says that if we make enough money to survive for 10 years, then that's fine. founder #2 says we're a high-growth company, and we want to be bought out for $400Million. The follow up question, "what's the plan to achieve that vision?" is met with blank stares from both of them. The vision is inconsistent at best, and there is no plan to agree or disagree with. In my opinion, founder #1 just wants a high-tech sandbox to play in. If he gets enough money so that he gets to keep playing then he's happy. founder #2 has friends who made a bunch of money in a startup -- he wants to be like them but doesn't actually know how. I already started floating my resume out there to test the waters a bit. So far, everything seems better than here. I'm concerned that I'm looking at the greener grass on the other side of the fence, though. Excellent tip about no longer sharing their vision. I had no desire to air our company's dirty laundry in an interview -- but I had to scramble for a PC response when posed that question a couple weeks ago.
- maxbrown 16y agoFirst, I would have the response in your pocket when you walk in to an interview. That's a question you can expect. Second, if you do get another job and you have the luxury to, maybe ask the company if you can consult with them for a week before deciding (get a week off of your current job). Nothing worse than moving from something you don't like to something you think you do, only to find out that it's the same or worse.
- sagacity 16y agoWas the company externally funded? If so, try and investigate the profiles of angles/investors who (financially) backed the startup. This often 'tells the tale'. If the startup is backed by someone (whether an individual or other entity) with a 'proven' track record, it is probably worth sticking it out a little longer. Hope that answers your question. - HTH
- geek96 16y agoThe original funding came through some government-sponsored startup loans with very generous terms. We were within a week of closing the doors when the more recent investment came through. Because of the financial issues at the time, the terms of that investment are not great for the company -- sort of kills any hope of a bidding war in the future. So no, nothing with a proven track record. I guess that's even more evidence that supports leaving.
- brudgers 16y agoCan what you love about the tech side be found elsewhere? If yes, then you can at least match what you have (interesting work, crappy compensation, and crappy office culture) someplace else.
- geek96 16y agoYes, I believe it can. Though it is a small field. I think it's worth putting more efforts into other interviews at this point.
- tungwaiyip 16y agoAsk yourself honestly if you are unhappy. This alone is a big reason to move. For me being unhappy is even worst than being pay poorly. The tech job market is very hot lately. You should check out your option out there.
- notahacker 16y agoUnless you tend towards exaggeration when describing things, you only need to re-read your own post to know the answer to this. You don't consider the leadership to have a blind spot that might be remedied, you consider them "shockingly incompetent". Unlike clumsily managed larger enterprises, they don't pay well, don't sound like they have any defensible advantages and are painted as being on the verge of shutdown. You're crediting the niche rather than the product itself for being able to generate revenue despite a lack of effort directed at winning and retaining clients. If a job's sole saving grace is solving interesting problems and you've been the driving force behind finding a solution, surely there are better options open?
- geek96 16y agoGood points, it is eye-opening to re-read my own words. The tech is flipping awesome. The company is commercializing research developed at a university. Imagine a research lab with several people -- the really smart ones that truly invented the tech got jobs and moved on. The guy that copied everyone elses homework started this business from what they left behind. It's a small niche, that's why customers keep finding us. But the tech really is the best in our niche. Perhaps needs more polish to finish the research to commercial transition - but functionally excellent. Definitely no efforts made to attract customers, and little effort to retain them. Yet somehow they keep calling. Now in negotiations with the first big customer -- if the deal works out the company will be on solid financial ground for awhile. That's the sort of upside that makes me consider sticking around. Of course, I also think about launching for myself....