6 ms·

Upgraded to a system with an X570 motherboard and an RX 5700 XT graphics card... for the most part, since Kernel 5.3, every release has been more stable and mos

Upgraded to a system with an X570 motherboard and an RX 5700 XT graphics card... for the most part, since Kernel 5.3, every release has been more stable and mostly better performing... though having to manually download drivers a couple times from the kernel git repo has been a pain, I really appreciate the effort. ----- Rant ahead... If only the front end could button up more... Gnome's blank screen + password seems to have a bug that I didn't have the time/ability to overcome and switched to kde/plasma, which imho is really disjointed as an experience in so many ways. I spent about 4 months mostly in Linux, until a few weeks ago, I had to switch back to windows. As to why the switch back, I couldn't use a VM, as most of the stuff didn't yet support the ahead of LTS kernel I was using, and I needed that for hardware stability. I will say the efforts of the Kernel team consistently impress me, and is a big part of why I target Linux and/or Docker for most of the work that I do. Docker+WSL2 has been nearly the best of both worlds to me. I still have Linux on another drive, so will probably give Elementary's UI a try next.

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
You should perhaps try other desktop environments/windows managers. The linux desktop world definitely does not simply end beyond Gnome and KDE. And very few people seem to be enjoying Gnome much at all, it just seems like a poorly designed environment. Nowadays I feel like throwing up at the thought of having to switch back to Windows, even in terms of desktop environment and interface. There are just so many more things one can do with Linux, ways to set up everything the way I want and weird Windows quirks to have to deal with. Especially the amount of extensibility and combinations are amazing. If I like a certain program or widget from one desktop environment, the chances are that I can just run that program while running the other desktop environment, thus combining the total experience into the one that I want. Not every single program can be freely combined of course, but many of them.
- _-___________-_ 7y ago
  I always disliked Linux on the desktop until I discovered i3 (and now sway). Simple, productive, easy to understand and thus easy to extend. Gnome and KDE feel like bad attempts to recreate macOS or Windows.
- tracker1 7y ago
  I understand this... however, I have limited hours in the day and actual work that pays me to get done. I have limited time as a result to experiment and try any number of desktop environments. I also have limited projects that require windows, and because I needed an ahead of mainline kernel for my hardware, the VM software options wouldn't install. Again, limited time. I'd much rather not be using windows... this time around, I tried WSL2 and Docker now runs in it as an option. I am surprised it works as well as it does. This means, practically speaking, I can use VS Code against my linux kernel/environment running under windows to do my actual work... Working in Linux, running in Windows. I also specifically stated I would likely return and give other linux desktop environments a chance. I have two nvme drives in my system, one has windows, the other linux. I didn't even run the windows environment after install for 4+ months, until I needed windows and couldn't get a VM working. ---- I have run ElementaryOS in the past and really liked it, and will probably give Pantheon a try next, without a full reinstall... It's not as good as MacOS' UI/UX, but iirc was pretty nice to use in practice.
- JoshTriplett 7y ago
  > And very few people seem to be enjoying Gnome much at all, Happy people don't comment as often as people who have complaints. I personally have used GNOME for a decade and a half, and it continues to Just Work for me, and get better with each release. I'm not suggesting that nobody has issues with it, but the idea that nobody likes it is certainly untrue. There's a reason it's the most popular default environment installed by distributions.
  - Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
    Not GNOME 3 right? It is the old GNOME that has "just worked", and I was talking about the new one which everyone hates despite Ubuntu trying to push people into using it.
    - JoshTriplett 7y ago
      (You might consider approaching things with less flames. Also, no, that's not historically accurate: Ubuntu didn't push GNOME until quite recently; they pushed their own Unity environment for a long time, and only recently switched to GNOME to better align with other distributions. And as mentioned in the comment you're replying to, no, "everyone" doesn't hate GNOME 3. Some people do. Loudness does not indicate quantity or proportion.) Yes, I mean GNOME 3, which Just Works for me, far better than GNOME 2 ever did. Before that, I ran GNOME 2, which was far better than GNOME 1. And before that I ran GNOME 1. The parallels between GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 are remarkable: GNOME 2 was also a major new version, much simpler with less configuration options and more focus on good out-of-the-box behavior, people hated it at first for daring to change at all, in addition to legitimate criticisms that they'd removed too much, and after the first couple of versions they found the right balance and the result turned out much better.
- AtlasBarfed 7y ago
  It's been a decade of despair in desktops, and even more maddeningly for Linux. Windows tried to commit business suicide with their desktop, and Linux could have made such massive strides in that time. Instead the desktop balkanization is even worse, Ubuntu disrupted things with Unity, GNOME and KDE went through full version rewrites. OSX is also stagnant (the finder is terrible, basic apps like media playing and image viewing are either missing basic features or saddled with forced ecosystem tie-ins, the mouse cursor and keyboard cursor disappears, basic shareware utilities are routinely made incompatible between releases and that's apparently by business shakedown strategy rather than technical reasons.
  - Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
    There are many Linux desktop environments that work great, I've been using them and am very happy with them. I am not sure what you mean "decade of despair".
    - AtlasBarfed 7y ago
      Didn't they "work great" 10 years ago? Then why did Ubuntu drop Gnome for Unity, then drop Unity for Gnome? Why the big rewrite of Gnome2? Why is wayland rewriting everything? Multiple monitors sucks. Graphics drivers integration sucks. Number of users is still incredibly small. A decade of despair.
buster 7y ago
> As to why the switch back, I couldn't use a VM, as most of the stuff didn't yet support the ahead of LTS kernel I was using, and I needed that for hardware stability. Did you know that Windows VMs work quite well in KVM and Gnome Boxes is a nice GUI to just install and run a Windows VM? Just asking, because for me it's the first time i'm not using VMWare or Virtualbox but still have the Windows VM for the occasional Windows-only software (but honestly, not like i do lots of stuff within Windows).
- tracker1 7y ago
  And when I tried to install KVM, it errored because the kernel I was using is unsupported and it didn't install, which is specifically what I pointed out... same for VirtualBox... I didn't go VMWare as I don't want to outlay the cost of VMWare Workstation.
  - dirtydroog 7y ago
    VMWare Player is free for non-commercial use. https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_workstation_player/15_0 https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_co...
    - tracker1 7y ago
      You cannot create a VM in VMWare Player. And since this would be for work projects, it wouldn't be non-commercial use.
      - dirtydroog 7y ago
        Unless you mean something different... yes you can. I'm using it right now.
  - buster 7y ago
    I didn't know that i have to "install" KVM.. isn't it Linux Kernel based and shouldn't even have the problem?
noisy_boy 7y ago
I also have a particular dislike for disjointed ui experiences. I also like sane and customizable desktop environments. From that perspective, having tried a whole of bunch of them (except tiling ones as I'm too lazy to memorize shortcuts), I have found XFCE to be the right balance (for me). Lightweight, sensible defaults, snappy and sufficiently customizable. I personally like Papirus icons + Numix style + Tahoma default font.
jklinger410 7y ago
I had to disable the lock screen on GNOME/Ubuntu to get it to work so I feel you there. I am on Focal Fossa and after a full update the lock screen bug was actually fixed, although I have it disabled anyway. Just FYI.
- tracker1 7y ago
  May give gnome a try again after the update releases... I had it configured the way I wanted... but the lock screen not going away, and over the top of everything was a huge fail, and annoying the more I am using my desktop now (since wfh due to human malware).

Erlich_Bachman 7y ago

You should perhaps try other desktop environments/windows managers. The linux desktop world definitely does not simply end beyond Gnome and KDE. And very few people seem to be enjoying Gnome much at all, it just seems like a poorly designed environment. Nowadays I feel like throwing up at the thought of having to switch back to Windows, even in terms of desktop environment and interface. There are just so many more things one can do with Linux, ways to set up everything the way I want and weird Windows quirks to have to deal with. Especially the amount of extensibility and combinations are amazing. If I like a certain program or widget from one desktop environment, the chances are that I can just run that program while running the other desktop environment, thus combining the total experience into the one that I want. Not every single program can be freely combined of course, but many of them.

_-___________-_ 7y ago
I always disliked Linux on the desktop until I discovered i3 (and now sway). Simple, productive, easy to understand and thus easy to extend. Gnome and KDE feel like bad attempts to recreate macOS or Windows.
tracker1 7y ago
I understand this... however, I have limited hours in the day and actual work that pays me to get done. I have limited time as a result to experiment and try any number of desktop environments. I also have limited projects that require windows, and because I needed an ahead of mainline kernel for my hardware, the VM software options wouldn't install. Again, limited time. I'd much rather not be using windows... this time around, I tried WSL2 and Docker now runs in it as an option. I am surprised it works as well as it does. This means, practically speaking, I can use VS Code against my linux kernel/environment running under windows to do my actual work... Working in Linux, running in Windows. I also specifically stated I would likely return and give other linux desktop environments a chance. I have two nvme drives in my system, one has windows, the other linux. I didn't even run the windows environment after install for 4+ months, until I needed windows and couldn't get a VM working. ---- I have run ElementaryOS in the past and really liked it, and will probably give Pantheon a try next, without a full reinstall... It's not as good as MacOS' UI/UX, but iirc was pretty nice to use in practice.
JoshTriplett 7y ago
> And very few people seem to be enjoying Gnome much at all, Happy people don't comment as often as people who have complaints. I personally have used GNOME for a decade and a half, and it continues to Just Work for me, and get better with each release. I'm not suggesting that nobody has issues with it, but the idea that nobody likes it is certainly untrue. There's a reason it's the most popular default environment installed by distributions.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  Not GNOME 3 right? It is the old GNOME that has "just worked", and I was talking about the new one which everyone hates despite Ubuntu trying to push people into using it.
  - JoshTriplett 7y ago
    (You might consider approaching things with less flames. Also, no, that's not historically accurate: Ubuntu didn't push GNOME until quite recently; they pushed their own Unity environment for a long time, and only recently switched to GNOME to better align with other distributions. And as mentioned in the comment you're replying to, no, "everyone" doesn't hate GNOME 3. Some people do. Loudness does not indicate quantity or proportion.) Yes, I mean GNOME 3, which Just Works for me, far better than GNOME 2 ever did. Before that, I ran GNOME 2, which was far better than GNOME 1. And before that I ran GNOME 1. The parallels between GNOME 2 and GNOME 3 are remarkable: GNOME 2 was also a major new version, much simpler with less configuration options and more focus on good out-of-the-box behavior, people hated it at first for daring to change at all, in addition to legitimate criticisms that they'd removed too much, and after the first couple of versions they found the right balance and the result turned out much better.
AtlasBarfed 7y ago
It's been a decade of despair in desktops, and even more maddeningly for Linux. Windows tried to commit business suicide with their desktop, and Linux could have made such massive strides in that time. Instead the desktop balkanization is even worse, Ubuntu disrupted things with Unity, GNOME and KDE went through full version rewrites. OSX is also stagnant (the finder is terrible, basic apps like media playing and image viewing are either missing basic features or saddled with forced ecosystem tie-ins, the mouse cursor and keyboard cursor disappears, basic shareware utilities are routinely made incompatible between releases and that's apparently by business shakedown strategy rather than technical reasons.
- Erlich_Bachman 7y ago
  There are many Linux desktop environments that work great, I've been using them and am very happy with them. I am not sure what you mean "decade of despair".
  - AtlasBarfed 7y ago
    Didn't they "work great" 10 years ago? Then why did Ubuntu drop Gnome for Unity, then drop Unity for Gnome? Why the big rewrite of Gnome2? Why is wayland rewriting everything? Multiple monitors sucks. Graphics drivers integration sucks. Number of users is still incredibly small. A decade of despair.

buster 7y ago

> As to why the switch back, I couldn't use a VM, as most of the stuff didn't yet support the ahead of LTS kernel I was using, and I needed that for hardware stability. Did you know that Windows VMs work quite well in KVM and Gnome Boxes is a nice GUI to just install and run a Windows VM? Just asking, because for me it's the first time i'm not using VMWare or Virtualbox but still have the Windows VM for the occasional Windows-only software (but honestly, not like i do lots of stuff within Windows).

tracker1 7y ago
And when I tried to install KVM, it errored because the kernel I was using is unsupported and it didn't install, which is specifically what I pointed out... same for VirtualBox... I didn't go VMWare as I don't want to outlay the cost of VMWare Workstation.
- dirtydroog 7y ago
  VMWare Player is free for non-commercial use. https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_computing/vmware_workstation_player/15_0 https://my.vmware.com/en/web/vmware/free#desktop_end_user_co...
  - tracker1 7y ago
    You cannot create a VM in VMWare Player. And since this would be for work projects, it wouldn't be non-commercial use.
    - dirtydroog 7y ago
      Unless you mean something different... yes you can. I'm using it right now.
- buster 7y ago
  I didn't know that i have to "install" KVM.. isn't it Linux Kernel based and shouldn't even have the problem?

noisy_boy 7y ago

I also have a particular dislike for disjointed ui experiences. I also like sane and customizable desktop environments. From that perspective, having tried a whole of bunch of them (except tiling ones as I'm too lazy to memorize shortcuts), I have found XFCE to be the right balance (for me). Lightweight, sensible defaults, snappy and sufficiently customizable. I personally like Papirus icons + Numix style + Tahoma default font.

jklinger410 7y ago

I had to disable the lock screen on GNOME/Ubuntu to get it to work so I feel you there. I am on Focal Fossa and after a full update the lock screen bug was actually fixed, although I have it disabled anyway. Just FYI.

tracker1 7y ago
May give gnome a try again after the update releases... I had it configured the way I wanted... but the lock screen not going away, and over the top of everything was a huge fail, and annoying the more I am using my desktop now (since wfh due to human malware).