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> Sure, there is a smalll minority of uneducated people that believe that. Most do not. I don't think so. Rhino horn is just a stand-in for TCM that everyone i

> Sure, there is a smalll minority of uneducated people that believe that. Most do not. I don't think so. Rhino horn is just a stand-in for TCM that everyone is aware of. Most Chinese believe in TCM, even doctors, who tend to practice a mishmash of TCM and western medicine. It's plausible that most Chinese men believe that Rhino horn could cure their impotence - if only they could afford it. EDIT: Face the facts, downvoters: "We interviewed 15 TCM practitioners in Hong Kong, investigating their familiarity with rhino horn, prescription experiences, and perspectives toward its use and trade. All interviewees believe that rhino horn possesses medicinal properties, despite general unfamiliarity with its chemical composition or any active ingredient." https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1940082918787428 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19400829187874... Note that I never claimed that a majority of TCM adherents support poaching. That is not the case.

deleted 7y ago
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tomhoward 7y ago
That statement doesn't prove what you think it proves. The study isn't designed to determine the percentage of TCM practitioners who believe in/use rhino horn. It is a study of TCM practitioners who believe in/use rhino horn to determine how they use it. That 15/15 survey participants believe in rhino horn is part of the study's design, not one of its conclusions. I have no idea how many TCM practitioners or patients in China believe in the efficacy of rhino horn, and neither do you. I do know, having occasionally visited Australian TCM practitioners (who trained in China) for acupuncture and related treatments, that none of them have any belief in animal-based remedies, endangered or otherwise.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  > That 15/15 survey participants believe in rhino horn is part of the study's design, not one of its conclusions. It doesn't explicitly say that anywhere. If you want to interpret the introductory sentence like that, fair enough, it's ambiguous. I interpret it the other way around. > I have no idea how many TCM practitioners or patients in China believe in the efficacy of rhino horn, and neither do you. Enough to drive the rhino the brink of extinction and enough to make the CCP legalize its trade again. Indeed, it's not so easy to find stats on this. The best I found: "Gratwicke et al. (2008) surveyed 1880 residents in six Chinese cites to learn about demand for products made from wild tigers. Of the 43% of respondents who admitted to having consumed tiger products, 71% expressed a preference for wild over farm-sourced products" "A survey of 800 educated, urban, traditional medicine users in Vietnam with an average monthly income of US$292 revealed that 59% (475) had either purchased or used rhino horn, or expressed an in-terest in doing so in the future (Hanley et al. 2016" https://www.nabu.de/imperia/md/content/nabude/internationalerartenschutz/160922-nabu-nashornstudie.pdf https://www.nabu.de/imperia/md/content/nabude/internationale... Of course that's proxy data, but it doesn't seem to be just a tiny minority. > I do know, having occasionally visited Australian TCM practitioners (who trained in China) for acupuncture and related treatments, that none of them have any belief in animal-based remedies, endangered or otherwise. Of course, foreigners only get sold the "feel good" version of TCM. Chinese people obviously don't want to "appear bad" to foreign sensitivities. That's why, if you ask them, they will probably downplay it or outright lie to you.

deleted 7y ago

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tomhoward 7y ago

That statement doesn't prove what you think it proves. The study isn't designed to determine the percentage of TCM practitioners who believe in/use rhino horn. It is a study of TCM practitioners who believe in/use rhino horn to determine how they use it. That 15/15 survey participants believe in rhino horn is part of the study's design, not one of its conclusions. I have no idea how many TCM practitioners or patients in China believe in the efficacy of rhino horn, and neither do you. I do know, having occasionally visited Australian TCM practitioners (who trained in China) for acupuncture and related treatments, that none of them have any belief in animal-based remedies, endangered or otherwise.

gridlockd 7y ago
> That 15/15 survey participants believe in rhino horn is part of the study's design, not one of its conclusions. It doesn't explicitly say that anywhere. If you want to interpret the introductory sentence like that, fair enough, it's ambiguous. I interpret it the other way around. > I have no idea how many TCM practitioners or patients in China believe in the efficacy of rhino horn, and neither do you. Enough to drive the rhino the brink of extinction and enough to make the CCP legalize its trade again. Indeed, it's not so easy to find stats on this. The best I found: "Gratwicke et al. (2008) surveyed 1880 residents in six Chinese cites to learn about demand for products made from wild tigers. Of the 43% of respondents who admitted to having consumed tiger products, 71% expressed a preference for wild over farm-sourced products" "A survey of 800 educated, urban, traditional medicine users in Vietnam with an average monthly income of US$292 revealed that 59% (475) had either purchased or used rhino horn, or expressed an in-terest in doing so in the future (Hanley et al. 2016" https://www.nabu.de/imperia/md/content/nabude/internationalerartenschutz/160922-nabu-nashornstudie.pdf https://www.nabu.de/imperia/md/content/nabude/internationale... Of course that's proxy data, but it doesn't seem to be just a tiny minority. > I do know, having occasionally visited Australian TCM practitioners (who trained in China) for acupuncture and related treatments, that none of them have any belief in animal-based remedies, endangered or otherwise. Of course, foreigners only get sold the "feel good" version of TCM. Chinese people obviously don't want to "appear bad" to foreign sensitivities. That's why, if you ask them, they will probably downplay it or outright lie to you.