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WHO’s statement itself says that the mask is helpful when you are caring for someone with a suspected infection, therefore it admits the mask can provide some l

WHO’s statement itself says that the mask is helpful when you are caring for someone with a suspected infection, therefore it admits the mask can provide some level of infection protection. It likewise says the mask should be worn by someone coughing or sneezing, showing that it protects others from your germs. The obvious answer to the “wearing masks in a wrong way” is to teach people to use and dispose of them correctly, just like we don’t dismiss hand washing because many people don’t know how to do it. I think these statements by health authorities are simply because there has been no RCT of mask wearing among the general public and for them lack of evidence is equivalent to evidence of absence.

usrusr 7y ago
The decision to treat absence of evidence as evidence of absence is surely driven by evidence of absence of masks, if you pardon the pun. It's very reasonable to prioritize healthcare workers who are far more exposed than anybody else and the lack of formal, peer reviewed studies is a welcome opportunity to subdue a panic buying bidding war. If truth was the only concern, I think that comparing the rough numbers between "masked countries" and "unmasked countries" should be more than enough to recommend masks. It's a planet-wide experiment and the control group is clearly seeing worse results. And it's not just SEA countries, there are also places in Europe that didn't play down masks, like the Czech Republic. And their metrics are looking quite good so far, with far more liberal measures than in neighboring Bavaria, except for the masks. With much of the intra-European spread being incubated in ski resorts one would expect them to be hit quite hard as well. And the Czech Republic doesn't have a magical stockpile either, from what I'm reading there's a lot of improvisation going on there regarding masks. Speaking of improvised masks, would vacuum cleaner bags be a good MacGuyver material that's present in almost any household? It's surely better at filtering than random t-shirt cloth, but would there be a risk of ruining lungs with fibers from the bag material? The fact that they are apparently safe to force air through them in living quarters with a two kilowatts blower suggests that they don't shed anything harmful, but I'd be glad to hear any counterarguments from the wide variety of expertise present in hn readership.
- nullc 7y ago
  I'd like to see the terms 'hording' and 'panic buying' discouraged. They're being almost universally used to simply refer to people who simply have different needs, preferences, or concerns... and the net effect is shaming people for being cautious or prepared. The end result is that in some places people are being denied the ability to purchase up more than a few days of supplies at once, forcing repeated trips out that increase everyone's risk. Virtually no one simply concerned for their own safety is creating a big problem for anyone with their purchases (at least not above and beyond the background level of synchronized need)-- sure, a gouger wanna-be here or there is a problem-- but that is its own separate thing. > better at filtering than random t-shirt cloth, Cotton is pretty good at absorbing water, if we're in the land of pure speculation it wouldn't be unreasonable to guess that it's not bad for droplets.
  - usrusr 7y ago
    I agree that it's both important and difficult to distinguish between hoarding and a laudable and well invented switch to a lower supermarket run frequency. But this will create temporary shortages even in the most cooperative and well-meaning environment if everybody tries to switch at the same time. Everybody needs to put on the brakes a little for a soft ramp-up of per trip volume or else you get an actual survival of the most ruthless shopper situation.
    - nullc 7y ago
      The characterization as "hording" and "panic buying" though is resulting in bad public policy: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/san-mateo-county-supervisor-considers-legislation-to-curb-panic-buying/2263613/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/san-mateo-county... A comment I've heard from someone at a grocery supplier is that stores haven't even called in to restock many out of stock items because they're simply overwhelmed. It's not clear to me what good public policy would be to address that, beyond patience. Telling people to hold off a bit would probably be prudent but with low item limits already being implemented by some stores and even ordinances being discussed, ... makes holding off sound potentially unwise. :( exactly opposite the needed effect.

usrusr 7y ago

The decision to treat absence of evidence as evidence of absence is surely driven by evidence of absence of masks, if you pardon the pun. It's very reasonable to prioritize healthcare workers who are far more exposed than anybody else and the lack of formal, peer reviewed studies is a welcome opportunity to subdue a panic buying bidding war. If truth was the only concern, I think that comparing the rough numbers between "masked countries" and "unmasked countries" should be more than enough to recommend masks. It's a planet-wide experiment and the control group is clearly seeing worse results. And it's not just SEA countries, there are also places in Europe that didn't play down masks, like the Czech Republic. And their metrics are looking quite good so far, with far more liberal measures than in neighboring Bavaria, except for the masks. With much of the intra-European spread being incubated in ski resorts one would expect them to be hit quite hard as well. And the Czech Republic doesn't have a magical stockpile either, from what I'm reading there's a lot of improvisation going on there regarding masks. Speaking of improvised masks, would vacuum cleaner bags be a good MacGuyver material that's present in almost any household? It's surely better at filtering than random t-shirt cloth, but would there be a risk of ruining lungs with fibers from the bag material? The fact that they are apparently safe to force air through them in living quarters with a two kilowatts blower suggests that they don't shed anything harmful, but I'd be glad to hear any counterarguments from the wide variety of expertise present in hn readership.

nullc 7y ago
I'd like to see the terms 'hording' and 'panic buying' discouraged. They're being almost universally used to simply refer to people who simply have different needs, preferences, or concerns... and the net effect is shaming people for being cautious or prepared. The end result is that in some places people are being denied the ability to purchase up more than a few days of supplies at once, forcing repeated trips out that increase everyone's risk. Virtually no one simply concerned for their own safety is creating a big problem for anyone with their purchases (at least not above and beyond the background level of synchronized need)-- sure, a gouger wanna-be here or there is a problem-- but that is its own separate thing. > better at filtering than random t-shirt cloth, Cotton is pretty good at absorbing water, if we're in the land of pure speculation it wouldn't be unreasonable to guess that it's not bad for droplets.
- usrusr 7y ago
  I agree that it's both important and difficult to distinguish between hoarding and a laudable and well invented switch to a lower supermarket run frequency. But this will create temporary shortages even in the most cooperative and well-meaning environment if everybody tries to switch at the same time. Everybody needs to put on the brakes a little for a soft ramp-up of per trip volume or else you get an actual survival of the most ruthless shopper situation.
  - nullc 7y ago
    The characterization as "hording" and "panic buying" though is resulting in bad public policy: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/san-mateo-county-supervisor-considers-legislation-to-curb-panic-buying/2263613/ https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/coronavirus/san-mateo-county... A comment I've heard from someone at a grocery supplier is that stores haven't even called in to restock many out of stock items because they're simply overwhelmed. It's not clear to me what good public policy would be to address that, beyond patience. Telling people to hold off a bit would probably be prudent but with low item limits already being implemented by some stores and even ordinances being discussed, ... makes holding off sound potentially unwise. :( exactly opposite the needed effect.