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Claiming that untrained staff could administer a ventilator from a 30 day bootcamp fits under that definition.

by omar_a1 7y ago

jjeaff 7y ago
Are you medically trained in the use of a ventilator? If not, I don't see how you could make that judgment either.
- omar_a1 7y ago
  No, and I'm not a brain surgeon either, so I suppose I can't claim you aren't qualified to perform brain surgery, using that logic. Better scrub up! But if you're going to claim the contrary, I take it that you have a wealth of experience administering ventilation. For the record, I've worked in fields tangential to medicine, including lab research for FDA trials and health tech. I may not be qualified to operate a ventilator, but I'm experienced enough to understand the technical skill gap between a non-invasive procedure and an invasive one. And ventilation falls into the latter category.
mistermann 7y ago
Perhaps I missed it, could you quote the text of that claim, please?
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Don't anyone bother replying to this obvious sealioning troll technique. He has no intention of carrying out any kind of sincere argument, and his politeness is totally fake: he has no respect for anyone he's arguing with, he's just trying to waste everyone's time. Of course he saw it, but he didn't like what he saw, so now he's pretending to have missed it on purpose, so repeating the facts he's ignoring won't make one bit of difference, and is just the two steps backwards he wants. Notice how he always tries to repeat this same pattern in so many other postings, and don't reply to any of his attempts at trolling, except to explicitly point out what he's doing. And remember to flag him every time he does it, please!
  - roenxi 7y ago
    He does have the advantage of being right though; I certainly didn't say anything like that untrained staff could administer a ventilator from a 30 day bootcamp. That is obviously stupid. Nobody in the thread did say that. The closest anyone came was pointing out it doesn't take 8 years to learn to administer a ventilator; which is uncontroversial. And that it takes less than 2 weeks to learn to press the buttons, which is also obviously true. Everybody knows they'd be killing people left and right proceeding like that left to their own devices. Particularly my comment which seemed to spark something; it's a pretty basic fact that Ops Research people walk into situations where they aren't necessarily experts and optimise. That is a core part of the job. Every field is stuffed with experts who don't see how anyone could help them in their domain and they are generally wrong about the administrative trivia of organising a workplace. It doesn't even have anything to do with software. Ops Research is from mechanical engineering and factory optimisation. I know bunch of doctors. I don't believe they work in an environment where the process has been mathematically optimised. They aren't mathematicians. That observation lines up very well with the "leave it to the experts" vibe of the responses here. They won't understand queuing theory for example.
    - DonHopkins 7y ago
      Trolling by claiming to agree with people, and saying some things that happen to be right (while throwing much much more bullshit against the wall to see what sticks), and being insincerely and cloyingly polite, is still trolling, and classic sealioning behavior. Take a look at his history. The first most obvious thing you will notice is how well the moderation system is working: so many of his postings are deeply downvoted (light gray text), flagged, and dead. But unfortunately he's still succeeding in wasting a whole lot of the moderator's and readers' time. If you can stand to wade through his light gray walls of rambling incoherent text, you will see there is a consistency to how he writes, digresses, derails, pretends concern, contradicts himself, and regularly trolls and sealions. As Jacques put it, "It's the online version of passive aggressive belligerence with a veneer of sincerity on top". And when you try to pin him down on anything he actually believes, he retreats into his intellectual alt-right safe space, where it's impossible to truly know anything, and facts are a matter of opinion, since we live in a post truth society, and people all have their beliefs that they are entitled to, and everybody believes lies except for him, while nobody knows what he truly believes, but if you sincerely ask him, he derails and refuses to answer, and says you can't force him to answer your questions, because you're not the boss of him, and he's the victim. Does that sound to you like the sincere conversation he claims he wants to have?

Claiming that untrained staff could administer a ventilator from a 30 day bootcamp fits under that definition.

jjeaff 7y ago

Are you medically trained in the use of a ventilator? If not, I don't see how you could make that judgment either.

omar_a1 7y ago
No, and I'm not a brain surgeon either, so I suppose I can't claim you aren't qualified to perform brain surgery, using that logic. Better scrub up! But if you're going to claim the contrary, I take it that you have a wealth of experience administering ventilation. For the record, I've worked in fields tangential to medicine, including lab research for FDA trials and health tech. I may not be qualified to operate a ventilator, but I'm experienced enough to understand the technical skill gap between a non-invasive procedure and an invasive one. And ventilation falls into the latter category.

mistermann 7y ago

Perhaps I missed it, could you quote the text of that claim, please?

DonHopkins 7y ago
Don't anyone bother replying to this obvious sealioning troll technique. He has no intention of carrying out any kind of sincere argument, and his politeness is totally fake: he has no respect for anyone he's arguing with, he's just trying to waste everyone's time. Of course he saw it, but he didn't like what he saw, so now he's pretending to have missed it on purpose, so repeating the facts he's ignoring won't make one bit of difference, and is just the two steps backwards he wants. Notice how he always tries to repeat this same pattern in so many other postings, and don't reply to any of his attempts at trolling, except to explicitly point out what he's doing. And remember to flag him every time he does it, please!
- roenxi 7y ago
  He does have the advantage of being right though; I certainly didn't say anything like that untrained staff could administer a ventilator from a 30 day bootcamp. That is obviously stupid. Nobody in the thread did say that. The closest anyone came was pointing out it doesn't take 8 years to learn to administer a ventilator; which is uncontroversial. And that it takes less than 2 weeks to learn to press the buttons, which is also obviously true. Everybody knows they'd be killing people left and right proceeding like that left to their own devices. Particularly my comment which seemed to spark something; it's a pretty basic fact that Ops Research people walk into situations where they aren't necessarily experts and optimise. That is a core part of the job. Every field is stuffed with experts who don't see how anyone could help them in their domain and they are generally wrong about the administrative trivia of organising a workplace. It doesn't even have anything to do with software. Ops Research is from mechanical engineering and factory optimisation. I know bunch of doctors. I don't believe they work in an environment where the process has been mathematically optimised. They aren't mathematicians. That observation lines up very well with the "leave it to the experts" vibe of the responses here. They won't understand queuing theory for example.
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Trolling by claiming to agree with people, and saying some things that happen to be right (while throwing much much more bullshit against the wall to see what sticks), and being insincerely and cloyingly polite, is still trolling, and classic sealioning behavior. Take a look at his history. The first most obvious thing you will notice is how well the moderation system is working: so many of his postings are deeply downvoted (light gray text), flagged, and dead. But unfortunately he's still succeeding in wasting a whole lot of the moderator's and readers' time. If you can stand to wade through his light gray walls of rambling incoherent text, you will see there is a consistency to how he writes, digresses, derails, pretends concern, contradicts himself, and regularly trolls and sealions. As Jacques put it, "It's the online version of passive aggressive belligerence with a veneer of sincerity on top". And when you try to pin him down on anything he actually believes, he retreats into his intellectual alt-right safe space, where it's impossible to truly know anything, and facts are a matter of opinion, since we live in a post truth society, and people all have their beliefs that they are entitled to, and everybody believes lies except for him, while nobody knows what he truly believes, but if you sincerely ask him, he derails and refuses to answer, and says you can't force him to answer your questions, because you're not the boss of him, and he's the victim. Does that sound to you like the sincere conversation he claims he wants to have?