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Not sure about economic perspective... Lots of old people dying prematurely is basically a huge relief on pension funds and health insurance (old slowly dying p

by tomp 7y ago

Not sure about economic perspective... Lots of old people dying prematurely is basically a huge relief on pension funds and health insurance (old slowly dying people are the most expensive to treat). Moral perspective is obviously different, though I'm not sure there's additional value to old human life over just human life.

timwaagh 7y ago
I don't know about the US, but my country is expected to lose between 1.2% and 9.7% this year.
zo1 7y ago
If the individuals are healthy/sane, then one could definitely argue that they provide additional value in terms of experience. I find it quite sad and unfortunate that we as humans spend our entire lives accumulating knowledge and experience, only for it to vanish in an instant. Or in the even more unfortunate case, over many years due to dementia and other mental causes.
- WalterBright 7y ago
  I'm a much better programmer than I was 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Still not happy with the code I write, however.
chousuke 7y ago
There's also the possibility that you won't need all those pensions and health care money if people can stay healthy and productive well past their "natural" prime. The amount of accumulated knowledge and skills lost due to aging is also non-trivial.
- frequentnapper 7y ago
  but maybe that's a good thing. In my experience, most people are not flexible in their mindset and so are averse to change their ideas based on changing times. This would create a world like that of Altered Carbon where people at the top just keep accumulating resources and never die and their ideals never change.
  - te_chris 7y ago
    Doesn't sound that different to today.
  - red75prime 7y ago
    > their ideals never change That wasn't enough. They are explicitly shown as slowly becoming amoral monsters. In the end Laurens Bancroft says as much in open text to further drive the point down.
  - eli_gottlieb 7y ago
    Don't we already see much talk of our living in a "gerontocracy"? I'd like my older family to enjoy better health and longer life as much as anyone, and God knows this pandemic is giving me a healthy sense of my own mortality at age 30. But... Sometimes I still want my older relatives to stop being such damnable Boomers and get out of the way, in terms of how society is run.
- hanniabu 7y ago
  > if people can stay healthy and productive well past their "natural" prime Ah yes, I'm really looking forward to eternal life of wage slaving where my whole purpose of living is to be productive and bring others profits.
  - bufferoverflow 7y ago
    Robots will do most the slaving. You will be lucky to have any job to do.
    - hanniabu 7y ago
      And people will still be preaching the "just learn a new skill" nonsense and that all the poor unemployed people are lazy.
      - bufferoverflow 7y ago
        "Learn a new skill" works perfectly fine now. The problem is, most people aren't good at learning new things, especially as they age.
  - chousuke 7y ago
    I meant productive in the positive sense that a person is able to enjoy their life doing things they find meaningful, not the "productivity" of a broken society where humans are exploited for the benefit of a lucky few. People in general do not require all that much live happy lives. I think that if there's any point to society existing at all it should be to raise the quality of life above that threshold for as many people as possible while seeking to minimize the strain on those it cannot elevate.
ekianjo 7y ago
> Lots of old people dying prematurely is basically a huge relief on pension funds only in systems that collectivize such pension funds and insurances.
saurik 7y ago
If you had old human life that was explicitly not degraded human life (so not at higher risk of death, not having fewer remaining years, and not having issues thinking or learning), I would have assumed old to be more valuable better than young due to accumulated knowledge and experience.
deleted 7y ago
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by tomp 7y ago

timwaagh 7y ago

I don't know about the US, but my country is expected to lose between 1.2% and 9.7% this year.

zo1 7y ago

If the individuals are healthy/sane, then one could definitely argue that they provide additional value in terms of experience. I find it quite sad and unfortunate that we as humans spend our entire lives accumulating knowledge and experience, only for it to vanish in an instant. Or in the even more unfortunate case, over many years due to dementia and other mental causes.

WalterBright 7y ago
I'm a much better programmer than I was 5, 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. Still not happy with the code I write, however.

chousuke 7y ago

There's also the possibility that you won't need all those pensions and health care money if people can stay healthy and productive well past their "natural" prime. The amount of accumulated knowledge and skills lost due to aging is also non-trivial.

frequentnapper 7y ago
but maybe that's a good thing. In my experience, most people are not flexible in their mindset and so are averse to change their ideas based on changing times. This would create a world like that of Altered Carbon where people at the top just keep accumulating resources and never die and their ideals never change.
- te_chris 7y ago
  Doesn't sound that different to today.
- red75prime 7y ago
  > their ideals never change That wasn't enough. They are explicitly shown as slowly becoming amoral monsters. In the end Laurens Bancroft says as much in open text to further drive the point down.
- eli_gottlieb 7y ago
  Don't we already see much talk of our living in a "gerontocracy"? I'd like my older family to enjoy better health and longer life as much as anyone, and God knows this pandemic is giving me a healthy sense of my own mortality at age 30. But... Sometimes I still want my older relatives to stop being such damnable Boomers and get out of the way, in terms of how society is run.
hanniabu 7y ago
> if people can stay healthy and productive well past their "natural" prime Ah yes, I'm really looking forward to eternal life of wage slaving where my whole purpose of living is to be productive and bring others profits.
- bufferoverflow 7y ago
  Robots will do most the slaving. You will be lucky to have any job to do.
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    And people will still be preaching the "just learn a new skill" nonsense and that all the poor unemployed people are lazy.
    - bufferoverflow 7y ago
      "Learn a new skill" works perfectly fine now. The problem is, most people aren't good at learning new things, especially as they age.
- chousuke 7y ago
  I meant productive in the positive sense that a person is able to enjoy their life doing things they find meaningful, not the "productivity" of a broken society where humans are exploited for the benefit of a lucky few. People in general do not require all that much live happy lives. I think that if there's any point to society existing at all it should be to raise the quality of life above that threshold for as many people as possible while seeking to minimize the strain on those it cannot elevate.

ekianjo 7y ago

> Lots of old people dying prematurely is basically a huge relief on pension funds only in systems that collectivize such pension funds and insurances.

saurik 7y ago

If you had old human life that was explicitly not degraded human life (so not at higher risk of death, not having fewer remaining years, and not having issues thinking or learning), I would have assumed old to be more valuable better than young due to accumulated knowledge and experience.

deleted 7y ago

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