4 ms·

This article is extremely light on details. All that matters at this point is effective anti-virals, and aggressive use of them before the virus or immune resp

This article is extremely light on details. All that matters at this point is effective anti-virals, and aggressive use of them before the virus or immune response damage the patient's lungs to the point that they need ventilation/ecmo. We can't afford to wait 18 months for a vaccine.

arcticfox 7y ago
Is there any empirical evidence for having patients on their stomach instead of their back on ventilators? That seems absurdly easy to test.
- unsrsly 7y ago
  For example, Guérin, C., Reignier, J., Richard, J.C., Beuret, P., Gacouin, A., Boulain, T., Mercier, E., Badet, M., Mercat, A., Baudin, O. and Clavel, M., 2013. Prone positioning in severe acute respiratory distress syndrome. New England Journal of Medicine, 368(23), pp.2159-2168.
  - gus_massa 7y ago
    Link https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 (just in case https://www.doi.org/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 https://www.doi.org/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 )
- freedrock87 7y ago
  They appear to be doing it in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfkbv_WQtn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfkbv_WQtn0
- frostburg 7y ago
  That isn't specifically a new thing, it has been shown to work in the past.
nick_kline 7y ago
But I don't think we have effective antivirals or evidence of usefulness. I'd say all that matters is saving people however we can. There's not one thing.
dragonwriter 7y ago
What makes you think we’ll be able to develop effective antivirals faster than a vaccine? We probably ought to be researching both.
- djohnston 7y ago
  I think the idea is that the antivirals are already sitting on shelves, we just need to figure out the right cocktail
  - kjs3 7y ago
    If it was that easy, we'd there would be no bacterial infections (antibiotics are already sitting on the shelves) and we would have no problems with viruses (antivirals are already sitting on shelves). It's not that easy.
  - dragonwriter 7y ago
    That's not at all how it works with antivirals, which is why we have effective antiviral treatments for only very few viral diseases.
    - djohnston 7y ago
      you better tell these guys to stop wasting their time, and fast! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32147628 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32147628
      - dragonwriter 7y ago
        Yes, it's possible that existing drugs are effective against it, alone or on combination. It's also quite likely (the norm, in fact, for viral diseases) that they aren't. It's not “we have antivirals we just have to find the right combination”, it's “we might get lucky and have a combination of an existing drug or combination of existing drugs that are effective”. As I said upthread we ought to be (and are) pursuing both approaches, vaccine and antiviral, not treating one as both certain and quicker and focussing exclusively on it, as another poster suggested upthread for antivirals.
kjs3 7y ago
This Anonymous is extremely light on details. The assumption that world wide medical professionals are not looking for some magic bullet anti-viral? Asinine. The assumption that there is some magical anti-viral cocktail that medical professionals aren't using? Asinine. We can't afford to give credence to mindless twits who are listening to Alex Jones/Fox News/Conspiracy du Jour and implying all we have to do is take up one of these fake news/fake cure woo and the problem is solved. If there was an easy answer, life would be back to normal.

arcticfox 7y ago

Is there any empirical evidence for having patients on their stomach instead of their back on ventilators? That seems absurdly easy to test.

unsrsly 7y ago
For example, Guérin, C., Reignier, J., Richard, J.C., Beuret, P., Gacouin, A., Boulain, T., Mercier, E., Badet, M., Mercat, A., Baudin, O. and Clavel, M., 2013. Prone positioning in severe acute respiratory distress syndrome. New England Journal of Medicine, 368(23), pp.2159-2168.
- gus_massa 7y ago
  Link https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 (just in case https://www.doi.org/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 https://www.doi.org/10.1056/NEJMoa1214103 )
freedrock87 7y ago
They appear to be doing it in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfkbv_WQtn0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfkbv_WQtn0
frostburg 7y ago
That isn't specifically a new thing, it has been shown to work in the past.

nick_kline 7y ago

But I don't think we have effective antivirals or evidence of usefulness. I'd say all that matters is saving people however we can. There's not one thing.

dragonwriter 7y ago

What makes you think we’ll be able to develop effective antivirals faster than a vaccine? We probably ought to be researching both.

djohnston 7y ago
I think the idea is that the antivirals are already sitting on shelves, we just need to figure out the right cocktail
- kjs3 7y ago
  If it was that easy, we'd there would be no bacterial infections (antibiotics are already sitting on the shelves) and we would have no problems with viruses (antivirals are already sitting on shelves). It's not that easy.
- dragonwriter 7y ago
  That's not at all how it works with antivirals, which is why we have effective antiviral treatments for only very few viral diseases.
  - djohnston 7y ago
    you better tell these guys to stop wasting their time, and fast! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32147628 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32147628
    - dragonwriter 7y ago
      Yes, it's possible that existing drugs are effective against it, alone or on combination. It's also quite likely (the norm, in fact, for viral diseases) that they aren't. It's not “we have antivirals we just have to find the right combination”, it's “we might get lucky and have a combination of an existing drug or combination of existing drugs that are effective”. As I said upthread we ought to be (and are) pursuing both approaches, vaccine and antiviral, not treating one as both certain and quicker and focussing exclusively on it, as another poster suggested upthread for antivirals.

kjs3 7y ago

This Anonymous is extremely light on details. The assumption that world wide medical professionals are not looking for some magic bullet anti-viral? Asinine. The assumption that there is some magical anti-viral cocktail that medical professionals aren't using? Asinine. We can't afford to give credence to mindless twits who are listening to Alex Jones/Fox News/Conspiracy du Jour and implying all we have to do is take up one of these fake news/fake cure woo and the problem is solved. If there was an easy answer, life would be back to normal.