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TLDR "Every state and society faces serious challenges. The difference lies in whether the underlying structures are healthy enough to effectively respond to t

TLDR "Every state and society faces serious challenges. The difference lies in whether the underlying structures are healthy enough to effectively respond to those challenges. Successful states and societies are resilient when faced with even serious challenges. Falling empires are not." "All empires think they’re special, but all empires eventually come to an end. The United States won’t be an exception. The popular story version of this particular falling empire might focus on a twice-divorced serial philanderer and bullshit artist and make him the villain, rendering his downfall or ultimate triumph the climax of the narrative. But it’s far more likely that the real meat of the issue will be found in a tax code full of sweetheart deals for the ultra-wealthy, the slashed budgets of county public health offices, the lead-contaminated water supplies. And that’s to say nothing of the decades of pointless, self-perpetuating, and almost undiscussed imperial wars that produce no victories but plenty of expenditures in blood and treasure, and a great deal of justified ill will."

lsc 7y ago
dunno, I kinda think that the right actions at the right time can [could have] make a huge difference. I think that if the rest of the country shut down the way CA and NY did... we'd have a real chance at this thing being a month-long crisis. (Of course, the real test here is how bad it ends up getting in CA; California shut down earlier in it's spread than NY. If I'm right, that means the peak won't be as bad here... but that is yet to be seen.) I also think the cuts to the county health department are... normally mitigated by an ample federal response.
- PeterStuer 7y ago
  What makes you think this could ever be a one month thing? A Belgian hospital did an experiment and tested everyone coming in with no COVID-19 symptoms (broken legs etc.). They found 8% of those were carrying and spreading the virus and were completely unaware of it. This will be here for a long time.
  - goldforever 7y ago
    Source?
- viklove 7y ago
  Why are people praising NY when the city is totally fucked and they've already run out of beds? Chicago seems to be doing better than SF, LA, or NYC right now...
6510 7y ago
If anyone remembers who wrote it plz say: First people work hard and barely survive Second people work hard and have enough 3rd people just work and have enough 4th people barely work and have more than enough 5th Earning things is replaced with entitlements and some have to work hard to make it so. 6th the entitled class grows beyond support then everything caves in. And everything starts over again. In short: To find the end, look for the entitlements.
- andrenth 7y ago
  It’s been some time since I’ve read it but this could be from The Revolt of the Masses by José Ortega y Gasset.
- gullyfur 7y ago
  > In short: To find the end, look for the entitlements. Would UBI be considered the ultimate form of entitlements, or is there something past UBI?
  - _curious_ 7y ago
    It's interesting to ponder what could be past UBI in terms of entitlements?
    - PeterStuer 7y ago
      Feeling entitled to maintain a parasitic wealth siphoning system so destrctive to a society supposedly justified by a vague 'trickle down' pinky promise that eventually has sucked out so much that you can't but give away some crumbs to let the people literally survive because none were 'trickeling' down from your silver spooned buffets?
  - PeterStuer 7y ago
    UBI is the Hail Mary of neoliberale market capitalism. Anything to keep the pointless consumption fueled 'growth' monster from keeling over. The 'ultmate' entitlements can be found in the 'private' sector, where 'institutions too big to fail' can keep gambling and reap enormous profits, and the moment the odds turn feel entitled to not ask but demand bailouts by the public they have been fleecing all along, where 'entrepreneurs' feel not just entitled but expect adoration when their planet destroying externality dumping schemes 'make a profit' or even just get to suck at the tit of the VC ponzi scheme.
HankB99 7y ago
Thanks for distilling that down. I didn't read the article. I agree that the current POTUS is more a symptom than a cause. I suspect that empires, much like organisms, are born, grow, mature and eventually succumb to senescence. Part of this is developing wealth and then spending more and more of the society's output to defend it from threats, real or imagined. It seems like at some point the defense becomes an end in itself and drains resources from things like keeping up infrastructure and taking care of citizens. Business entities such as large corporations seem to see a similar life cycle, though defense is not what drains them. I suspect it is more related to layers of management.

lsc 7y ago

dunno, I kinda think that the right actions at the right time can [could have] make a huge difference. I think that if the rest of the country shut down the way CA and NY did... we'd have a real chance at this thing being a month-long crisis. (Of course, the real test here is how bad it ends up getting in CA; California shut down earlier in it's spread than NY. If I'm right, that means the peak won't be as bad here... but that is yet to be seen.) I also think the cuts to the county health department are... normally mitigated by an ample federal response.

PeterStuer 7y ago
What makes you think this could ever be a one month thing? A Belgian hospital did an experiment and tested everyone coming in with no COVID-19 symptoms (broken legs etc.). They found 8% of those were carrying and spreading the virus and were completely unaware of it. This will be here for a long time.
- goldforever 7y ago
  Source?
viklove 7y ago
Why are people praising NY when the city is totally fucked and they've already run out of beds? Chicago seems to be doing better than SF, LA, or NYC right now...

6510 7y ago

If anyone remembers who wrote it plz say: First people work hard and barely survive Second people work hard and have enough 3rd people just work and have enough 4th people barely work and have more than enough 5th Earning things is replaced with entitlements and some have to work hard to make it so. 6th the entitled class grows beyond support then everything caves in. And everything starts over again. In short: To find the end, look for the entitlements.

andrenth 7y ago
It’s been some time since I’ve read it but this could be from The Revolt of the Masses by José Ortega y Gasset.
gullyfur 7y ago
> In short: To find the end, look for the entitlements. Would UBI be considered the ultimate form of entitlements, or is there something past UBI?
- _curious_ 7y ago
  It's interesting to ponder what could be past UBI in terms of entitlements?
  - PeterStuer 7y ago
    Feeling entitled to maintain a parasitic wealth siphoning system so destrctive to a society supposedly justified by a vague 'trickle down' pinky promise that eventually has sucked out so much that you can't but give away some crumbs to let the people literally survive because none were 'trickeling' down from your silver spooned buffets?
- PeterStuer 7y ago
  UBI is the Hail Mary of neoliberale market capitalism. Anything to keep the pointless consumption fueled 'growth' monster from keeling over. The 'ultmate' entitlements can be found in the 'private' sector, where 'institutions too big to fail' can keep gambling and reap enormous profits, and the moment the odds turn feel entitled to not ask but demand bailouts by the public they have been fleecing all along, where 'entrepreneurs' feel not just entitled but expect adoration when their planet destroying externality dumping schemes 'make a profit' or even just get to suck at the tit of the VC ponzi scheme.

HankB99 7y ago

Thanks for distilling that down. I didn't read the article. I agree that the current POTUS is more a symptom than a cause. I suspect that empires, much like organisms, are born, grow, mature and eventually succumb to senescence. Part of this is developing wealth and then spending more and more of the society's output to defend it from threats, real or imagined. It seems like at some point the defense becomes an end in itself and drains resources from things like keeping up infrastructure and taking care of citizens. Business entities such as large corporations seem to see a similar life cycle, though defense is not what drains them. I suspect it is more related to layers of management.