4 ms·

Most Covid patients die on respirators anyway, can a nurse do 90% of the job ("good enough") and ask a doc if the rest is needed? The other option is worse and

Most Covid patients die on respirators anyway, can a nurse do 90% of the job ("good enough") and ask a doc if the rest is needed? The other option is worse and I doubt USA can afford to have docs sitting for decades waiting for another Covid like scenario. Remember these ventilators will be produced and go in storage to wait...

rajandatta 7y ago
I would think you could augment with other personnel - interns, students, volunteers - who are trained and who's only job is to watch the ventilator and monitor a patient. They do not try and treat a patient but call for help if the patient's condition takes a downturn or equipment shows a problem they have not been trained to address. This is not general purpose training - but very bounded / specific notes. That's got to be better than exhausting more vital personnel.
verytrivial 7y ago
The numbers from Wuhan were something like 30% fatalities for those moved to ventilation. That doesn't detract from your point but does support why the path "make a ton of ventilators" is being persued.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago
  Technically I should provide a citation and searched, but couldn't find it. I'm almost certain that I've read that wayyy more than 50% (prob 70% die) once placed on ventilator. Maybe because those ending there are already with one foot+ on the grave. The ventilator can save,say 30%, and also make us feel good "we did all we could," after all, we will all reach that point one day ;)
  - hiram112 7y ago
    There is a small study / report released with 32 patients in Wuhan who were put on ventilators. 31 died. I have not been able to find any larger case reports. Though on Tucker Carlson a few nights ago, a doctor on the front lines in NYC was interviewed and gave a similar report: If you reach the point of intubation and ventilation, the chances of survival is quite low. A lot of these stats now coming out are going to be harder and harder to interpret going forward, regardless of the true numbers, as the media twists things around for their own political purposes. If ventilators turn out to be not the difference between life and death, even according to the raw stats, the media who wants to use lack of ventilators to blame one political party or another for the incompetency, isn't likely to tell the truth anyway.
  - barry-cotter 7y ago
    Most people who get put on a ventilator die under the best of circumstances.

rajandatta 7y ago

I would think you could augment with other personnel - interns, students, volunteers - who are trained and who's only job is to watch the ventilator and monitor a patient. They do not try and treat a patient but call for help if the patient's condition takes a downturn or equipment shows a problem they have not been trained to address. This is not general purpose training - but very bounded / specific notes. That's got to be better than exhausting more vital personnel.

verytrivial 7y ago

The numbers from Wuhan were something like 30% fatalities for those moved to ventilation. That doesn't detract from your point but does support why the path "make a ton of ventilators" is being persued.

onetimemanytime 7y ago
Technically I should provide a citation and searched, but couldn't find it. I'm almost certain that I've read that wayyy more than 50% (prob 70% die) once placed on ventilator. Maybe because those ending there are already with one foot+ on the grave. The ventilator can save,say 30%, and also make us feel good "we did all we could," after all, we will all reach that point one day ;)
- hiram112 7y ago
  There is a small study / report released with 32 patients in Wuhan who were put on ventilators. 31 died. I have not been able to find any larger case reports. Though on Tucker Carlson a few nights ago, a doctor on the front lines in NYC was interviewed and gave a similar report: If you reach the point of intubation and ventilation, the chances of survival is quite low. A lot of these stats now coming out are going to be harder and harder to interpret going forward, regardless of the true numbers, as the media twists things around for their own political purposes. If ventilators turn out to be not the difference between life and death, even according to the raw stats, the media who wants to use lack of ventilators to blame one political party or another for the incompetency, isn't likely to tell the truth anyway.
- barry-cotter 7y ago
  Most people who get put on a ventilator die under the best of circumstances.