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“ But another possibility is that we engineer the perfect happiness drug, with no bad side effects, and no one wants to do anything but lay in bed and take this

“ But another possibility is that we engineer the perfect happiness drug, with no bad side effects, and no one wants to do anything but lay in bed and take this drug all day, sapping all ambition from the human race” Someone has read Infinite Jest

bagacrap 7y ago
Sam doesn't explain why this is scary. Why is ambition more important than happiness? I think if you were taking the happiness drug you wouldn't care that you weren't ambitious. It sounds like Sam is just afraid of letting go of his current value systems.
- dwaltrip 7y ago
  Perhaps I'm misinterpreting things, but it sounds like this perfect happiness drug would mean the end of the human race and of possibly the only technological civilization in the universe.
  - projektfu 7y ago
    Doubtful about the human species, but it could bring about the end of civilization.
- someguyorother 7y ago
  At some point, ethics becomes axiomatic. You can't deductively derive what you ought to be doing from how the world works. All you can do is try to make the axioms as few and as (seemingly) obvious as possible. If you're a hedonist utilitarian, then taking the drug that gives you ultimate happiness for as long as you live may well be the best thing to do. But if you, for instance, intrinsically value life and civilization, then the externality the drug would produce might mean that life would end rather quickly, and that would be a bad thing. In simple terms, it would be too selfish for you to take. Or you could have a value system that's not consequentialist at all. If you have a duty to yourself to stay clear-minded, and you consider drugs to be in violation of this, then you wouldn't take them no matter how much happiness you could get. As you say, you might alter your value system once you've taken that drug, but that would lead people with other value systems to be even more reluctant in taking it.
  - bagacrap 7y ago
    I don't think the perfect happiness drug causes you to sit inside and end your life quickly. That sounds a lot like heroine, which we already have, and is very much not perfect. When I'm happy, I still go out and do things, and the happier I am, the longer I want to live, so I eat healthfully and exercise. The perfect happiness drug would make me want to extend my own life and spread joy to others, so I'd probably still have kids and try to provide for them. If it meanwhile made me give up hopes of winning the Superbowl or founding a unicorn, meh, I'm ok with that. If you stretch the meaning of "ambition" to cover all of "life and civilization" then I think it's not possible to achieve happiness while dropping ambition.
motohagiography 7y ago
Or has an Instagram account.

bagacrap 7y ago

Sam doesn't explain why this is scary. Why is ambition more important than happiness? I think if you were taking the happiness drug you wouldn't care that you weren't ambitious. It sounds like Sam is just afraid of letting go of his current value systems.

dwaltrip 7y ago
Perhaps I'm misinterpreting things, but it sounds like this perfect happiness drug would mean the end of the human race and of possibly the only technological civilization in the universe.
- projektfu 7y ago
  Doubtful about the human species, but it could bring about the end of civilization.
someguyorother 7y ago
At some point, ethics becomes axiomatic. You can't deductively derive what you ought to be doing from how the world works. All you can do is try to make the axioms as few and as (seemingly) obvious as possible. If you're a hedonist utilitarian, then taking the drug that gives you ultimate happiness for as long as you live may well be the best thing to do. But if you, for instance, intrinsically value life and civilization, then the externality the drug would produce might mean that life would end rather quickly, and that would be a bad thing. In simple terms, it would be too selfish for you to take. Or you could have a value system that's not consequentialist at all. If you have a duty to yourself to stay clear-minded, and you consider drugs to be in violation of this, then you wouldn't take them no matter how much happiness you could get. As you say, you might alter your value system once you've taken that drug, but that would lead people with other value systems to be even more reluctant in taking it.
- bagacrap 7y ago
  I don't think the perfect happiness drug causes you to sit inside and end your life quickly. That sounds a lot like heroine, which we already have, and is very much not perfect. When I'm happy, I still go out and do things, and the happier I am, the longer I want to live, so I eat healthfully and exercise. The perfect happiness drug would make me want to extend my own life and spread joy to others, so I'd probably still have kids and try to provide for them. If it meanwhile made me give up hopes of winning the Superbowl or founding a unicorn, meh, I'm ok with that. If you stretch the meaning of "ambition" to cover all of "life and civilization" then I think it's not possible to achieve happiness while dropping ambition.

motohagiography 7y ago

Or has an Instagram account.