7 ms·

> You can use radar satellite imagery of your various business facilities such as parking lots, logistic centers, and retail stores Could this be used to monit

> You can use radar satellite imagery of your various business facilities such as parking lots, logistic centers, and retail stores Could this be used to monitor someone's home?

jrockway 7y ago
Yes. This is just the ground station, though, you would still need to put a satellite in orbit to receive messages from, however. And remember that it's somewhat expensive in terms of delta-V budget to have the satellite over someone's house exactly when you want it to be. Most people that want to spy on their neighbor will just buy a $30 spy cam with a 4G uplink.
- monocasa 7y ago
  Surveillance satellites aren't normally in geostationary orbits either, as that's too far away for the optics. Your deltav comment alludes to it. They seem to be into highly elliptical orbits.
  - birdyrooster 7y ago
    You would need an insane amount of LEO satellites in order to get a feed which was continuous. I don't even know how to start doing the maths on this one.
    - monocasa 7y ago
      Well, you're not going to be able to make out a house from 100x farther away either. Thanks to Trump's inability to not tweet anything he sees, we know that Block 4 KH-11 satellites have a 10cm/pixel about standard (they're in an elliptical orbit, but they use which ever is closest at the time). So we're looking at a 10M/pixel in geostationary orbit, assuming you can get the same optics that NROL was shipping up as late as 2013.
      - tomcam 7y ago
        > Thanks to Trump's inability to not tweet anything he sees If there’s one thing I hate about that guy, it’s his being the most transparent presidency in history.
        monocasa 7y ago
        His actions are sort of the worst of both worlds here. On one hand leaking information that's only useful to geopolitical adversaries (probably because he didn't understand the implications of tweeting stuff like that), and on the other hand being a new bar for destruction of public records when it comes to decisions made by the administration (somehow even beating out the Obama administration). https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/6/national_archives_record_retention_matthew_connelly https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/6/national_archives_reco... https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filin... It'd be a huge stretch to call it "the most transparent presidency in history".
        mopsi 7y ago
        > On one hand leaking information that's only useful to geopolitical adversaries What did he leak? From what I can tell, the photo merely confirmed what was already a reasonable educated guess.
        monocasa 7y ago
        The resolution of the optics.
        mopsi 7y ago
        Why do you think it was a secret to anyone? Any amateur astronomer can figure it out from mirror size and orbital parameters. A 1968 NASA publication (sold for $3.00) discusses various limitations, concluding: "The telescope objective for best resolution, as viewed from a satellite at an altitude of 320 kilometers, requires a diameter of about 1.6 meters to resolve a 12-centimeter radius" https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690003603.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/196900... That approximately 10 cm resolution has always been a resonable guess of the capabilities of best spy satellites. Trump's tweet surprised no-one. It confirmed what has always been thought to be true.
    - hobofan 7y ago
      How about equipping every Starlink satelite with some optics?
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  But if a $30 spy cam with 4G uplink was detected by the marks anti-surveillance regime (https://www.bastille.net/cell-phone-detection https://www.bastille.net/cell-phone-detection) you could be talking a huge liability. Might be more discreet to use satellites with lower cost if things don't work out so great.
  - detaro 7y ago
    This is a "bring-your-own-satellite" service.
- tracker1 7y ago
  I know that some have worked on this... but have given thought to how one could use lower power hives/swarms in order to do surveillance. Not so much for spying on neighbors but virtual tours of national parks and monuments, stitching many photos together to form 3D tour space. High end capacitors over batteries, and a swarm where individual drones come home to charge, keeping roughly 1/3-1/2 in reserve and accounting for flight times to/from target area... For less coverage, of course, less drones would be needed. Getting down closer to the size between a large bug and small bird's body for total size would probably be needed as well for a bit of stealth... noise is another concern. Interesting work/ideas.
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bitminer 7y ago
Monitor their home? No. Imagery from space is only on a 90 minute interval and clouds get in the way. See digitalglobe.com for pricing. It's about $5k per square km iirc. (With more satellites you can get more frequent coverage of course.) Radar of course is weatherproof but again the cost is ridiculous unless you are a government or Exxon.

> You can use radar satellite imagery of your various business facilities such as parking lots, logistic centers, and retail stores Could this be used to monitor someone's home?

jrockway 7y ago

Yes. This is just the ground station, though, you would still need to put a satellite in orbit to receive messages from, however. And remember that it's somewhat expensive in terms of delta-V budget to have the satellite over someone's house exactly when you want it to be. Most people that want to spy on their neighbor will just buy a $30 spy cam with a 4G uplink.

monocasa 7y ago
Surveillance satellites aren't normally in geostationary orbits either, as that's too far away for the optics. Your deltav comment alludes to it. They seem to be into highly elliptical orbits.
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  You would need an insane amount of LEO satellites in order to get a feed which was continuous. I don't even know how to start doing the maths on this one.
  - monocasa 7y ago
    Well, you're not going to be able to make out a house from 100x farther away either. Thanks to Trump's inability to not tweet anything he sees, we know that Block 4 KH-11 satellites have a 10cm/pixel about standard (they're in an elliptical orbit, but they use which ever is closest at the time). So we're looking at a 10M/pixel in geostationary orbit, assuming you can get the same optics that NROL was shipping up as late as 2013.
    - tomcam 7y ago
      > Thanks to Trump's inability to not tweet anything he sees If there’s one thing I hate about that guy, it’s his being the most transparent presidency in history.
      - monocasa 7y ago
        His actions are sort of the worst of both worlds here. On one hand leaking information that's only useful to geopolitical adversaries (probably because he didn't understand the implications of tweeting stuff like that), and on the other hand being a new bar for destruction of public records when it comes to decisions made by the administration (somehow even beating out the Obama administration). https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/6/national_archives_record_retention_matthew_connelly https://www.democracynow.org/2020/2/6/national_archives_reco... https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filing-system-635164 https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/10/trump-papers-filin... It'd be a huge stretch to call it "the most transparent presidency in history".
        mopsi 7y ago
        > On one hand leaking information that's only useful to geopolitical adversaries What did he leak? From what I can tell, the photo merely confirmed what was already a reasonable educated guess.
        monocasa 7y ago
        The resolution of the optics.
        mopsi 7y ago
        Why do you think it was a secret to anyone? Any amateur astronomer can figure it out from mirror size and orbital parameters. A 1968 NASA publication (sold for $3.00) discusses various limitations, concluding: "The telescope objective for best resolution, as viewed from a satellite at an altitude of 320 kilometers, requires a diameter of about 1.6 meters to resolve a 12-centimeter radius" https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19690003603.pdf https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/196900... That approximately 10 cm resolution has always been a resonable guess of the capabilities of best spy satellites. Trump's tweet surprised no-one. It confirmed what has always been thought to be true.
  - hobofan 7y ago
    How about equipping every Starlink satelite with some optics?
birdyrooster 7y ago
But if a $30 spy cam with 4G uplink was detected by the marks anti-surveillance regime (https://www.bastille.net/cell-phone-detection https://www.bastille.net/cell-phone-detection) you could be talking a huge liability. Might be more discreet to use satellites with lower cost if things don't work out so great.
- detaro 7y ago
  This is a "bring-your-own-satellite" service.
tracker1 7y ago
I know that some have worked on this... but have given thought to how one could use lower power hives/swarms in order to do surveillance. Not so much for spying on neighbors but virtual tours of national parks and monuments, stitching many photos together to form 3D tour space. High end capacitors over batteries, and a swarm where individual drones come home to charge, keeping roughly 1/3-1/2 in reserve and accounting for flight times to/from target area... For less coverage, of course, less drones would be needed. Getting down closer to the size between a large bug and small bird's body for total size would probably be needed as well for a bit of stealth... noise is another concern. Interesting work/ideas.

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deleted 7y ago

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bitminer 7y ago

Monitor their home? No. Imagery from space is only on a 90 minute interval and clouds get in the way. See digitalglobe.com for pricing. It's about $5k per square km iirc. (With more satellites you can get more frequent coverage of course.) Radar of course is weatherproof but again the cost is ridiculous unless you are a government or Exxon.