4 ms·

Anonymous v. Koch brothers

15 points by entangld 16y ago

entangld 16y ago
They're becoming a pretty sharp political group.
- Semiapies 16y ago
  How so? By hopping on the 2011 version of the George Soros freakout GOP supporters had years back? By announcing that they're "targeting" an organization, knowing that that will be reported and that people will completely forget this "conflict" by the time whichever person or persons within Anonymous made this announcement lose interest in this "operation"? OK, that last is almost kinda sharp.
  - entangld 16y ago
    1. They're jumping on hot topics like the Koch brothers. 2. They're bringing up politically salient points like the "clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process." 3. Their writing sounds populist and they're boldly declaring attacks against powerful opponents which gives them a David v. Goliath story which is easy for the public to get behind. 4. Colbert did a story on them so their name is growing. 5. I'm not saying they're good or bad. But, whatever their ideology, they're becoming a stronger presence and they're getting better at diplomacy.
    - Semiapies 16y ago
      1) So is everyone and his brother. Like the Soros freak-out or the Tea Party, it's a fascinatingly manufactured meme with real legs. 2) This is not their discovery. Or, you know, particularly remarkable. No-bid contracts have a long and dirty history. 3) That's not "sharpness", that's just grandstanding by individuals in a community that values attention-seeking. 4) And? See #3. You're rather clearly confusing political acumen with "can get attention".
      - entangld 16y ago
        It's PR, what else is it supposed to do? It doesn't need to be rocket science. Brilliance in obscurity has no political impact.
makeramen 16y ago
digital warfare goes commercial
bonch 16y ago
The sudden attacks on the libertarian Koch brothers from the Left is pretty silly and closed-minded.
- jbooth 16y ago
  They're not libertarian, they're movement conservatives. And anonymous isn't part of "the Left". In fact, almost any sentence involving a capitalized "the Left" is probably missing the mark.
  - glenra 16y ago
    > They're not libertarian, they're movement conservatives. They've donated at least $20 million to the ACLU to fight the Patriot Act. They support the Cato institute. One of them ran for president on the Libertarian ticket. The Koch family isn't unified in its views; collectively the group does support some "movement conservative" causes. For that matter, they've supported a few democrats and democrat-favored causes. But "libertarian" actually fits pretty well if you need an overall label.
  - TomOfTTB 16y ago
    As I pointed out in my reply the Koch brothers opposed most of what the Bush administration did and both sides play the "money for a movement" game (again going back to George Soros and friends).
  - bonch 16y ago
    The Kochs have donated to several libertarian causes, many of which would be considered "liberal," such as in favor of abortion. Hell, David Koch was the 1980 vice-presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party. The people attacking the Koch brothers are from the Left--left-wing blogs, left-wing radio hosts, and so on. You don't give any reasons why my statements missed the mark, so I can only assume you have none. You may not like the phrase simply because you don't like being labeled--I'm sure the Right feels the same way. Anonymous is just a label any anonymous people can use, and I didn't make a determination about who any anonymous people belonged to. I simply described the recent attacks on the Koch brothers, which is most definitely coming from the Left.
michaelcampbell 16y ago
> Governor Walker’s union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process. Wow. I was skeptical at this claim, but it appears to be true? * http://drudgeretort.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/walker-to-make-no-bid-sale-of-wisconsin-power-plants-to-koch-brothers/ http://drudgeretort.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/walker-to-make-... * http://wisconsin.onpolitix.com/news/36834/governor-walker-and-koch-industries http://wisconsin.onpolitix.com/news/36834/governor-walker-an... Bizarre.
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  I don't see how this is bizarre. He's trying to jettison anything that loses money. Selling a business for nothing is a net profit to you if the business is losing money. As far as Koch Industries they specifically said (in the 2nd link you posted) that they have no interest in the power plants.
  - jlv 16y ago
    I'd argue that what's bizarre about it is the uncompetitive nature of the bidding. Sure, jettison anything that's losing money right now (as short-sighted as it seems) but at least get top dollar for it. As is, it seems a little shady - no?
    - TomOfTTB 16y ago
      Not if you're trying to act quickly. I'm not saying it's how I would react but he's clearly trying to take immediate action and a long, drawn out process isn't conducive to that. Any government bidding program is going to take several years to complete. It's going to involve a committee to evaluate the bids. That committee will have to be formed meaning there will be politics involved in deciding who is on the committee. Once that's all done you'll have to put out the request for bids and wait for those bids to come in. Then comes the evaluation by the committee and so on. Again I wouldn't disagree if you said he's acting rashly but it's consistent with his public stance to push these things quickly.

15 points by entangld 16y ago

entangld 16y ago

They're becoming a pretty sharp political group.

Semiapies 16y ago
How so? By hopping on the 2011 version of the George Soros freakout GOP supporters had years back? By announcing that they're "targeting" an organization, knowing that that will be reported and that people will completely forget this "conflict" by the time whichever person or persons within Anonymous made this announcement lose interest in this "operation"? OK, that last is almost kinda sharp.
- entangld 16y ago
  1. They're jumping on hot topics like the Koch brothers. 2. They're bringing up politically salient points like the "clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process." 3. Their writing sounds populist and they're boldly declaring attacks against powerful opponents which gives them a David v. Goliath story which is easy for the public to get behind. 4. Colbert did a story on them so their name is growing. 5. I'm not saying they're good or bad. But, whatever their ideology, they're becoming a stronger presence and they're getting better at diplomacy.
  - Semiapies 16y ago
    1) So is everyone and his brother. Like the Soros freak-out or the Tea Party, it's a fascinatingly manufactured meme with real legs. 2) This is not their discovery. Or, you know, particularly remarkable. No-bid contracts have a long and dirty history. 3) That's not "sharpness", that's just grandstanding by individuals in a community that values attention-seeking. 4) And? See #3. You're rather clearly confusing political acumen with "can get attention".
    - entangld 16y ago
      It's PR, what else is it supposed to do? It doesn't need to be rocket science. Brilliance in obscurity has no political impact.

makeramen 16y ago

digital warfare goes commercial

bonch 16y ago

The sudden attacks on the libertarian Koch brothers from the Left is pretty silly and closed-minded.

jbooth 16y ago
They're not libertarian, they're movement conservatives. And anonymous isn't part of "the Left". In fact, almost any sentence involving a capitalized "the Left" is probably missing the mark.
- glenra 16y ago
  > They're not libertarian, they're movement conservatives. They've donated at least $20 million to the ACLU to fight the Patriot Act. They support the Cato institute. One of them ran for president on the Libertarian ticket. The Koch family isn't unified in its views; collectively the group does support some "movement conservative" causes. For that matter, they've supported a few democrats and democrat-favored causes. But "libertarian" actually fits pretty well if you need an overall label.
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  As I pointed out in my reply the Koch brothers opposed most of what the Bush administration did and both sides play the "money for a movement" game (again going back to George Soros and friends).
- bonch 16y ago
  The Kochs have donated to several libertarian causes, many of which would be considered "liberal," such as in favor of abortion. Hell, David Koch was the 1980 vice-presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party. The people attacking the Koch brothers are from the Left--left-wing blogs, left-wing radio hosts, and so on. You don't give any reasons why my statements missed the mark, so I can only assume you have none. You may not like the phrase simply because you don't like being labeled--I'm sure the Right feels the same way. Anonymous is just a label any anonymous people can use, and I didn't make a determination about who any anonymous people belonged to. I simply described the recent attacks on the Koch brothers, which is most definitely coming from the Left.

michaelcampbell 16y ago

> Governor Walker’s union-busting budget plan contains a clause that went nearly un-noticed. This clause would allow the sale of publicly owned utility plants in Wisconsin to private parties (specifically, Koch Industries) at any price, no matter how low, without a public bidding process. Wow. I was skeptical at this claim, but it appears to be true? * http://drudgeretort.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/walker-to-make-no-bid-sale-of-wisconsin-power-plants-to-koch-brothers/ http://drudgeretort.wordpress.com/2011/02/23/walker-to-make-... * http://wisconsin.onpolitix.com/news/36834/governor-walker-and-koch-industries http://wisconsin.onpolitix.com/news/36834/governor-walker-an... Bizarre.

TomOfTTB 16y ago
I don't see how this is bizarre. He's trying to jettison anything that loses money. Selling a business for nothing is a net profit to you if the business is losing money. As far as Koch Industries they specifically said (in the 2nd link you posted) that they have no interest in the power plants.
- jlv 16y ago
  I'd argue that what's bizarre about it is the uncompetitive nature of the bidding. Sure, jettison anything that's losing money right now (as short-sighted as it seems) but at least get top dollar for it. As is, it seems a little shady - no?
  - TomOfTTB 16y ago
    Not if you're trying to act quickly. I'm not saying it's how I would react but he's clearly trying to take immediate action and a long, drawn out process isn't conducive to that. Any government bidding program is going to take several years to complete. It's going to involve a committee to evaluate the bids. That committee will have to be formed meaning there will be politics involved in deciding who is on the committee. Once that's all done you'll have to put out the request for bids and wait for those bids to come in. Then comes the evaluation by the committee and so on. Again I wouldn't disagree if you said he's acting rashly but it's consistent with his public stance to push these things quickly.