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? You should call AWS. They will negotiate. If it doesn't work out -- I think you should file a dispute with the credit card company. They will probably back yo

? You should call AWS. They will negotiate. If it doesn't work out -- I think you should file a dispute with the credit card company. They will probably back you and want AWS to negotiate. If none of this happens - threaten to declare bankruptcy. Either way, AWS will back off. There is no money in it for them. IN NO WAY, should you pay the 80k bill and shut down your company.

fulafel 7y ago
Transferring money out from a company to hide from creditors is probably illegal.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- perl4ever 7y ago
  We read horror stories in the media because they make good stories, but in fact, people fuck up all the time in business and then it's just reversed because in most cases, nobody is irrationally out for their pound of flesh. People fat finger multimillion dollar trades on Wall Street and while I don't know that it's guaranteed to work out, I definitely have read about instances of that being reversed. If cryptocurrency and smart contracts make sense to you, you might not be aware that forgiveness for human error really does happen in normal business.
manigandham 7y ago
Yes, you're legally obligated to pay the bill. You can't decide you don't want to pay because you don't like the cost. Claiming an unfounded dispute or transferring funds to a new company is fraud and you'll probably end up with both AWS and your bank coming after you for collections. With $80k on the line, its enough to file legal claims. The best plan is to negotiate directly with AWS and ask for forgiveness and a payment plan. Do not try to run away from your financial obligations or you will make it far worse. EDIT: you've rewritten your comment so this doesn't apply, but please don't recommend that people avoid their debts.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- ransom1538 7y ago
  "Yes, you're legally obligated to pay the bill" Yes in civil court. So, no don't pay it. This isn't London 1689. Debtors prisons do not exist. "Claiming an unfounded dispute or transferring funds to a new company is fraud" Explaining to the credit card company you were tricked or confused in this purchase is not fraud.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    1) Civil vs criminal does not change the fact that incurred bills are a legal obligation. 2) AWS did not take advantage of you and making a mistake does not absolve you of responsibility. There's nothing to dispute. 3) Bankruptcy is allowed, and is also exactly what happened. You stated other things like filing fake disputes and transferring funds to a new company, which is fraud. And that does come with criminal charges. EDIT: to your completely revised comment - Bills are still owed, even if it's only civil, and judgements can result in wages, taxes and other assets being garnished. Saying you were "tricked or confused" when you weren't is fraudulent, and credit card companies are not going to defend you from that. Unless AWS forced those charges or failed to deliver services, there's no dispute.
    - ransom1538 7y ago
      "AWS did not take advantage of you" How do you know? That is what a court system is for. "like filing fake disputes and transferring funds to a new company" Ah the old straw man. Nope. I didn't say file fake disputes. "please don't recommend running away from debts" Having the ability to not pay debts is the entire point of Limited Liability Companies. People out of human dignity should have the right to NOT pay debts. Please don't recommend paying whatever a debtor wants.
      - manigandham 7y ago
        The poster clearly admitted what happened. Mistakenly running up a large bill doesn't clear your responsibility to pay that bill and knowingly filing disputes or changing companies is fraud. You can definitely go to court but without clear evidence you will likely lose and then owe even more. Since you're revising your comments, there's no point to further discussion but please don't recommend running away from debts. That's not going to end well.
igammarays 7y ago
Accidental overspend is probably a big part of cloud revenue. When you have an AWS account being used by 6 dev teams with their own microservices, how does anyone know whether you're paying for resources that you don't need? Very few people even understand how to create a cost-optimized setup for their own project.

fulafel 7y ago

Transferring money out from a company to hide from creditors is probably illegal.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
perl4ever 7y ago
We read horror stories in the media because they make good stories, but in fact, people fuck up all the time in business and then it's just reversed because in most cases, nobody is irrationally out for their pound of flesh. People fat finger multimillion dollar trades on Wall Street and while I don't know that it's guaranteed to work out, I definitely have read about instances of that being reversed. If cryptocurrency and smart contracts make sense to you, you might not be aware that forgiveness for human error really does happen in normal business.

manigandham 7y ago

Yes, you're legally obligated to pay the bill. You can't decide you don't want to pay because you don't like the cost. Claiming an unfounded dispute or transferring funds to a new company is fraud and you'll probably end up with both AWS and your bank coming after you for collections. With $80k on the line, its enough to file legal claims. The best plan is to negotiate directly with AWS and ask for forgiveness and a payment plan. Do not try to run away from your financial obligations or you will make it far worse. EDIT: you've rewritten your comment so this doesn't apply, but please don't recommend that people avoid their debts.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ransom1538 7y ago
"Yes, you're legally obligated to pay the bill" Yes in civil court. So, no don't pay it. This isn't London 1689. Debtors prisons do not exist. "Claiming an unfounded dispute or transferring funds to a new company is fraud" Explaining to the credit card company you were tricked or confused in this purchase is not fraud.
- manigandham 7y ago
  1) Civil vs criminal does not change the fact that incurred bills are a legal obligation. 2) AWS did not take advantage of you and making a mistake does not absolve you of responsibility. There's nothing to dispute. 3) Bankruptcy is allowed, and is also exactly what happened. You stated other things like filing fake disputes and transferring funds to a new company, which is fraud. And that does come with criminal charges. EDIT: to your completely revised comment - Bills are still owed, even if it's only civil, and judgements can result in wages, taxes and other assets being garnished. Saying you were "tricked or confused" when you weren't is fraudulent, and credit card companies are not going to defend you from that. Unless AWS forced those charges or failed to deliver services, there's no dispute.
  - ransom1538 7y ago
    "AWS did not take advantage of you" How do you know? That is what a court system is for. "like filing fake disputes and transferring funds to a new company" Ah the old straw man. Nope. I didn't say file fake disputes. "please don't recommend running away from debts" Having the ability to not pay debts is the entire point of Limited Liability Companies. People out of human dignity should have the right to NOT pay debts. Please don't recommend paying whatever a debtor wants.
    - manigandham 7y ago
      The poster clearly admitted what happened. Mistakenly running up a large bill doesn't clear your responsibility to pay that bill and knowingly filing disputes or changing companies is fraud. You can definitely go to court but without clear evidence you will likely lose and then owe even more. Since you're revising your comments, there's no point to further discussion but please don't recommend running away from debts. That's not going to end well.

igammarays 7y ago

Accidental overspend is probably a big part of cloud revenue. When you have an AWS account being used by 6 dev teams with their own microservices, how does anyone know whether you're paying for resources that you don't need? Very few people even understand how to create a cost-optimized setup for their own project.