5 ms·

Personalized flight on the whole was really the only big miss. I think the main reason that isn't more mainstream is that even with small planes, we chose to e

by Zak 16y ago

Personalized flight on the whole was really the only big miss. I think the main reason that isn't more mainstream is that even with small planes, we chose to emphasize safety far more than with road vehicles. I don't know why that is; I'd gladly trade some amount of safety if it meant I could afford to own and operate a plane. A Cessna 172 is no more complicated than an economy car. It costs $275,000 due to regulation and low volume, not because it's inherently more expensive to produce than a car.

treeface 16y ago
A Cessna 172 is no more complicated than an economy car. Not trying to sound snarky here, but have you ever piloted an airplane? The pre-takeoff checks take a little while, require a good bit of technical expertise, and are absolutely required if you want to be pretty damn sure that your airplane won't fall out of the sky. Safety is, at times, overemphasized, but then again your car won't fall from the sky when it stalls.
- khafra 16y ago
  I read him as saying it's no more complicated to build; not that it's no more complicated to operate. This interpretation makes sense in view of his point that safety concerns (pre-takeoff checks) are what prevent widespread personal flight.
- 9ec4c12949a4f3 16y ago
  Cars were not as reliable as they were today either. Things broke down all the time 40 years ago.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- silverbax88 16y ago
  It does sound like someone who hasn't experienced flight training. You don't have to know how to drive a car by instruments alone.
  - shpxnvz 16y ago
    You don't have to know how to fly an airplane by instruments alone, either, until you want to get an instrument rating. As an example of a lower barrier to entry, the (relatively) new Sport Pilot certificate allows for the operation of smaller, lighter aircraft with training and testing requirements that are not dissimilar to those for getting a driver's license. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Sport_pilot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_Unit...
- Zak 16y ago
  Well, there was this time when I was two and I was sitting on the pilot's lap.... I've spent a lot of time as a passenger in small planes and I have a good idea of what's involved in a preflight. I'm not against safety in general, but I think lawsuits and government oversight have really held back general aviation. A plane should be more reliable and therefore expensive than a car with a similar level of sophistication, but it doesn't need to cost 15 times as much. Edit: based on khafra's comment, a possible reading of my earlier comment is that it's no more complicated to fly a plane than drive a car. I intended to say that it's no more complicated to build a single-engine propeller-driven airplane than to build a car.
  - lloeki 16y ago
    People often underestimate how important regular car maintenance is for safety. Just because it statically holds on ground or casual speed doesn't mean it'll grip in a quick wet corner or handle safely in an emergency situation. Hence (partly) car death+accident rate is abysmal compared to flying vehicles. In addition to weekly maintenance checks, I personally always run quick pre+post drive checklists on my car, but then that may be because I received flight education :)
    - defen 16y ago
      Care to share your pre+post drive checklists?
      - dandrews 16y ago
        Like the parent, I had an informal "pre-flight" inspection that I'd execute on my motor home on travel days. Hatches closed and locked, hoses and cables and steps and awning retracted and secured, ceiling vents closed, LP gas shut off, tires aired up, engine fluids nominal.
  - treeface 16y ago
    Righto...thanks for the explanation, and sorry for the confusion on my part.
- Dramatize 16y ago
  All you need is an Airplane Parachute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8cntPdRtk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8cntPdRtk
- Nagyman 16y ago
  172's were introduced in 1956. I'm certain if personal flight were more mainstream, flying could be quite as easy as hoping in your car. Further, it's easier to automate flight because of the vertical space available for traffic separation. The hard part is space for taking off and landing. I personally don't agree that safety has held personal flight back. It's just not practical except for longer distances.
  - treeface 16y ago
    I actually agree with you, but I have also yet to see a relatively inexpensive autopilot system that can successfully navigate all of the many horrible scenarios that could arise. We're probably already (or nearly) there tech-wise, but in the current Cessnas, you still need to be able to land and take off, and if there's even a minor crosswind on landing, this requires a very good bit of training and understanding of the technical limitations of the airplane. Not impossible for people to learn, but certainly a lot more difficult than "gas = go, break = stop, wheel left = turn left, wheel right = turn right". As far as safety goes...I agree that personal flight has a great track record. But it's difficult to say if this would continue (absent a beautiful autopilot system) if we gave out pilot's licenses to 90% of 17 year olds and filled the sky with millions of small aircraft.
VladRussian 16y ago
with all this modern priority of safety over everything else, man on the Moon is impossible. Heck, even bringing an open fire into a cold dump cave full of people would be a grave safety violation.
- weavejester 16y ago
  I'm pretty sure that if we were that worried about health and safety we wouldn't send troops into war zones.
zandor 16y ago
James May puts it very nicely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0IxnxwJSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0IxnxwJSU
jrockway 16y ago
Fly an ultralight instead? Then you don't have to deal with regulations and all that. I think if people really wanted to fly, there would be mass-market ultralights. But the reality is that driving is just as good and feels safer and easier to understand. (What do you if you get lost flying? You can't just pull over and ask for directions.)
- jcitme 16y ago
  if you need directions you're kinda missing the point of flying...
  - jrockway 16y ago
    I agree, and hence the unpopularity of being a private pilot. When you drive a car, the consequences and required training are minimal. If you don't know where you are, you follow the signs to the gas station and ask for directions. If you run out of gas, you put your hood up and wait for someone to stop and give you gas. The net intelligence required is about zero. Hence, the popularity. When flying, not only are you responsible for getting yourself where you want to go, you are also responsible for not running out of fuel and crashing onto a family of four having a nice barbecue. This is beyond the risk that most people are willing to take. Learning about VORs and DMEs and NDBs and GPSes are not worth the ability to travel across the country 2x to 4x faster than driving, especially when the distances people want to cover are in th 2-6 hour range. 6 hours is not much time. Neither is 3h time. So why not drive the same vehicle you use every day to get to work? There is no risk involved and what are you going to do with the 3 hours flying you own plane got you? Drink beer? Meh. Much better than not accidentally murdering anyone. (Not saying I'm happy with this, but it's the reality. If you want to fly an airplane, You Are Weird. I Am Weird, but I can't expect everyone else to be weird...)
- Zak 16y ago
  Ultralights aren't very practical due to the government limitations placed upon them. There are few situations in which there's an advantage to flying an aircraft with a cruise speed lower than a freeway speed limit cross-country rather than driving.

by Zak 16y ago

treeface 16y ago

A Cessna 172 is no more complicated than an economy car. Not trying to sound snarky here, but have you ever piloted an airplane? The pre-takeoff checks take a little while, require a good bit of technical expertise, and are absolutely required if you want to be pretty damn sure that your airplane won't fall out of the sky. Safety is, at times, overemphasized, but then again your car won't fall from the sky when it stalls.

khafra 16y ago
I read him as saying it's no more complicated to build; not that it's no more complicated to operate. This interpretation makes sense in view of his point that safety concerns (pre-takeoff checks) are what prevent widespread personal flight.
9ec4c12949a4f3 16y ago
Cars were not as reliable as they were today either. Things broke down all the time 40 years ago.
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
silverbax88 16y ago
It does sound like someone who hasn't experienced flight training. You don't have to know how to drive a car by instruments alone.
- shpxnvz 16y ago
  You don't have to know how to fly an airplane by instruments alone, either, until you want to get an instrument rating. As an example of a lower barrier to entry, the (relatively) new Sport Pilot certificate allows for the operation of smaller, lighter aircraft with training and testing requirements that are not dissimilar to those for getting a driver's license. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_United_States#Sport_pilot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot_certification_in_the_Unit...
Zak 16y ago
Well, there was this time when I was two and I was sitting on the pilot's lap.... I've spent a lot of time as a passenger in small planes and I have a good idea of what's involved in a preflight. I'm not against safety in general, but I think lawsuits and government oversight have really held back general aviation. A plane should be more reliable and therefore expensive than a car with a similar level of sophistication, but it doesn't need to cost 15 times as much. Edit: based on khafra's comment, a possible reading of my earlier comment is that it's no more complicated to fly a plane than drive a car. I intended to say that it's no more complicated to build a single-engine propeller-driven airplane than to build a car.
- lloeki 16y ago
  People often underestimate how important regular car maintenance is for safety. Just because it statically holds on ground or casual speed doesn't mean it'll grip in a quick wet corner or handle safely in an emergency situation. Hence (partly) car death+accident rate is abysmal compared to flying vehicles. In addition to weekly maintenance checks, I personally always run quick pre+post drive checklists on my car, but then that may be because I received flight education :)
  - defen 16y ago
    Care to share your pre+post drive checklists?
    - dandrews 16y ago
      Like the parent, I had an informal "pre-flight" inspection that I'd execute on my motor home on travel days. Hatches closed and locked, hoses and cables and steps and awning retracted and secured, ceiling vents closed, LP gas shut off, tires aired up, engine fluids nominal.
- treeface 16y ago
  Righto...thanks for the explanation, and sorry for the confusion on my part.
Dramatize 16y ago
All you need is an Airplane Parachute: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8cntPdRtk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a8cntPdRtk
Nagyman 16y ago
172's were introduced in 1956. I'm certain if personal flight were more mainstream, flying could be quite as easy as hoping in your car. Further, it's easier to automate flight because of the vertical space available for traffic separation. The hard part is space for taking off and landing. I personally don't agree that safety has held personal flight back. It's just not practical except for longer distances.
- treeface 16y ago
  I actually agree with you, but I have also yet to see a relatively inexpensive autopilot system that can successfully navigate all of the many horrible scenarios that could arise. We're probably already (or nearly) there tech-wise, but in the current Cessnas, you still need to be able to land and take off, and if there's even a minor crosswind on landing, this requires a very good bit of training and understanding of the technical limitations of the airplane. Not impossible for people to learn, but certainly a lot more difficult than "gas = go, break = stop, wheel left = turn left, wheel right = turn right". As far as safety goes...I agree that personal flight has a great track record. But it's difficult to say if this would continue (absent a beautiful autopilot system) if we gave out pilot's licenses to 90% of 17 year olds and filled the sky with millions of small aircraft.

VladRussian 16y ago

with all this modern priority of safety over everything else, man on the Moon is impossible. Heck, even bringing an open fire into a cold dump cave full of people would be a grave safety violation.

weavejester 16y ago
I'm pretty sure that if we were that worried about health and safety we wouldn't send troops into war zones.

zandor 16y ago

James May puts it very nicely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0IxnxwJSU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0IxnxwJSU

jrockway 16y ago

Fly an ultralight instead? Then you don't have to deal with regulations and all that. I think if people really wanted to fly, there would be mass-market ultralights. But the reality is that driving is just as good and feels safer and easier to understand. (What do you if you get lost flying? You can't just pull over and ask for directions.)

jcitme 16y ago
if you need directions you're kinda missing the point of flying...
- jrockway 16y ago
  I agree, and hence the unpopularity of being a private pilot. When you drive a car, the consequences and required training are minimal. If you don't know where you are, you follow the signs to the gas station and ask for directions. If you run out of gas, you put your hood up and wait for someone to stop and give you gas. The net intelligence required is about zero. Hence, the popularity. When flying, not only are you responsible for getting yourself where you want to go, you are also responsible for not running out of fuel and crashing onto a family of four having a nice barbecue. This is beyond the risk that most people are willing to take. Learning about VORs and DMEs and NDBs and GPSes are not worth the ability to travel across the country 2x to 4x faster than driving, especially when the distances people want to cover are in th 2-6 hour range. 6 hours is not much time. Neither is 3h time. So why not drive the same vehicle you use every day to get to work? There is no risk involved and what are you going to do with the 3 hours flying you own plane got you? Drink beer? Meh. Much better than not accidentally murdering anyone. (Not saying I'm happy with this, but it's the reality. If you want to fly an airplane, You Are Weird. I Am Weird, but I can't expect everyone else to be weird...)
Zak 16y ago
Ultralights aren't very practical due to the government limitations placed upon them. There are few situations in which there's an advantage to flying an aircraft with a cruise speed lower than a freeway speed limit cross-country rather than driving.