5 ms·

God bless the end of airbnb. Airbnb is a toxic parasitic leach that needs to die. It has ruined housing for the neady, and broken the diversity within cities.

by 3327 7y ago

God bless the end of airbnb. Airbnb is a toxic parasitic leach that needs to die. It has ruined housing for the neady, and broken the diversity within cities. Someone please tell me one benefit of Airbnb for society? Not the individual, and I will eat my words. Thanks.

gambiting 7y ago
It enabled whole masses of people to rent their properties out, something they maybe haven't even considered before, be it due to social stigma or technical difficulties, with relatively strong protections of a major corporation behind it. Previously if you wanted to rent an apartment out in a small rural town in Poland, you could.....print some fliers? Buy an ad in a newspaper? Massive pain in the ass basically. But thanks to AirBnb lots of people were able to do it with relative ease, at a benefit to them and those staying in the area. If that isn't benefit to a society then it's only because of a definition of either benefit or society that you picked.
- rwmj 7y ago
  People rented out holiday cottages long before Airbnb existed, even long before the internet. There were sections in classified listings in newspapers, and later specialised websites.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    Yes. This has nothing to do with holidays though. I'm thinking a mid-size town where the only attraction is a local coal mine - the only hotel option was an old post-soviet hotel where you'd only stay if you absolutely had to. But even if it's not a holiday destination people still have to stay short term occasionally - be it for work or for things like weddings, funerals etc. Not that long ago finding a place to stay that wasn't the mentioned dingy hotel was very hard to do, nowadays there's always at least a few listings on AirBnB so you can stay somewhere that it's a dump.
    - rwmj 7y ago
      I always think it's amusing that people assume that before the internet nothing like this could possibly have been done. Here's how it worked before the internet: You the property owner would engage a local estate agent [realtor] and they would find tenants for your property. There were both short and long term rentals. Most of the time it would be rented out to someone local. But if someone from another country wanted to do a short term rental, they would contract a company who would have a presence in the foreign country and would in turn be able to contact local estate agents by telephone, get particulars sent through the mail or fax (or if it was really urgent, read out on the phone), and these would find their way back to the prospective tenant. Sure it's not as smooth as clicking on a website, but it was still a thing that was done. (In fact these intermediary companies still exist and are still used especially by businesses that want a full service and don't want to deal with the randomness of Airbnb. I knew someone who worked in a Japan-England company back in the 90s http://www.redacstrattons.com/ http://www.redacstrattons.com/)
- nervousvarun 7y ago
  Counterpoint: This increased short-term rental market in a lot of cities displaces long-term renters who were priced out...and this disproportionately affects the poor who can't afford to buy property.
  - flashyfaffe2 7y ago
    Indeed thats true but with the same logic you could blame companies and public offices for having their offices in the city center.
- amiga_500 7y ago
  Airbnb are helping the little guy overcome social stigma? You couldn't misrepresent the effect on regular working people more.
  - gambiting 7y ago
    What do you mean?
Etheryte 7y ago
Travelling businessmen, university lecturers, coaches of various kind, tourists, all benefit a society greatly in a number of ways. There's a reason every country has a department in one ministry or another that's solely focused on promoting tourism. Rising housing prices are not the fault of a single company but that of bad policymaking.
jbullock35 7y ago
> Someone please tell me one benefit of Airbnb for society It has been an enormous benefit to travelers of all kinds. It has made a huge variety of properties available for short-term rental, and because these rentals are often less expensive than alternatives, it has made travel possible for many who previously couldn't afford it. The benefits are greatest for those who want to travel to expensive places, and to places that have few hotels -- that is, for travelers interested in most of the world's destinations. Airbnb has also helped ordinary people to fight back against the powerful hotel lobbies. Perhaps this isn't a problem in some countries. But it is a grave problem in the United States, where the hotels fight hard to prevent any competition. See especially New York: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hotel-industrys-plan-to-combat-airbnb.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hot.... (I've used Airbnb a few times but otherwise have no connection to it.)
- dorchadas 7y ago
  > It has been an enormous benefit to travelers of all kinds. It has made a huge variety of properties available for short-term rental, and because these rentals are often less expensive than alternatives, it has made travel possible for many who previously couldn't afford it. At the expense of the local populations, especially the working-class and lower socioeconomic classes. Not to mention they've basically become hotels without any regulations. I wouldn't call this a good thing, and certainly don't think travellers should benefit over locals.
flashyfaffe2 7y ago
I'm not sure understand the rationale behind your question. Does a company in general have to provide benefit to the society overall? If so then rather to erase a lot of companies. Airbnb seems to provide a service where their clients are fine with. Like it or not, Airbnb is just the consequence of number of decisions made in the past and they simply put a foot in the highly réglemented real estate, builder, and tourism business by providing a service that was more in line with the current needs. It's not Airbnb s fault if this so difficult to increase the number of new building every year, not Airbnb's fault if a simple landlord can offer better service than an hotel chain, not Airbnb's fault if landlord prefer to deal to less complicated short rent. Airbnb is just taking advantage of a more ugly situation ( sure you have witnessed displeasant adventures encountered in buying house, going to holiday or move out from a flat). However I wouldn't be surprised if they have speeded up the process you blamed. Please note that I do not work nor ever used Airbnb before.
- eesmith 7y ago
  > Does a company in general have to provide benefit to the society overall? Is your question one of corporate citizenship, or legal obligations? If the former, yes. If the latter, then some countries have legal requirements, like https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/company-reporting-and-auditing/company-reporting/non-financial-reporting_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/company-repo... regarding reporting requirements about certain social practices, for large companies in the EU, or https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f2e36590-95bd-4f42-9501-85fa254d7856 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f2e36590-95bd... which suggests that Germany may "require businesses to establish a sophisticated compliance management system to protect human rights in their global supply chains." > Airbnb seems to provide a service where their clients are fine with. .. Airbnb is just the consequence of .. I don't understand your statement. Surely there's any number of organizations which provide illegal and/or immoral services, which their clients are fine with. That doesn't mean those services should be allowed to continue, does it? In US history, the Pinkertons were a private detective agency/security force. Its clients hired them (among other things) as strikebreakers. Their anti-union activities included using machine guns, tear gas bombs, and clubs to break up union meetings. Their clients were "fine with" their services, which were "just a consequence of a number of decisions made in the past" and which met "the current needs" of their clients. I don't think these actions of the Pinks were beneficial to society, or morally correct, or something that should be allowed to continue. While, if I understand it, your argument seems to accept that anything which happened (and was legal, and of benefit to its customers), should be allowed to happen in the future, rather than recognizing that some behaviors are so detrimental that they should be made illegal, even when they benefit some.
amiga_500 7y ago
Hacker news always downvotes strong airbnb criticism when you make the main point that they are rentiers. Every. Single. Time.
cycomanic 7y ago
Airbnb as so many other startup that came out of the "sharing economy" are all about internalising profits and externalising risk and costs. I pretty much would argue that most of them don't have do not have any societal benefit. It's even worse many of these don't even have sustainable business models it's all about growth and increasing stock prises while leaving a trail of burned soil in their wake. Prime example uber or all the bike and scooter rental companies.

by 3327 7y ago

gambiting 7y ago

It enabled whole masses of people to rent their properties out, something they maybe haven't even considered before, be it due to social stigma or technical difficulties, with relatively strong protections of a major corporation behind it. Previously if you wanted to rent an apartment out in a small rural town in Poland, you could.....print some fliers? Buy an ad in a newspaper? Massive pain in the ass basically. But thanks to AirBnb lots of people were able to do it with relative ease, at a benefit to them and those staying in the area. If that isn't benefit to a society then it's only because of a definition of either benefit or society that you picked.

rwmj 7y ago
People rented out holiday cottages long before Airbnb existed, even long before the internet. There were sections in classified listings in newspapers, and later specialised websites.
- gambiting 7y ago
  Yes. This has nothing to do with holidays though. I'm thinking a mid-size town where the only attraction is a local coal mine - the only hotel option was an old post-soviet hotel where you'd only stay if you absolutely had to. But even if it's not a holiday destination people still have to stay short term occasionally - be it for work or for things like weddings, funerals etc. Not that long ago finding a place to stay that wasn't the mentioned dingy hotel was very hard to do, nowadays there's always at least a few listings on AirBnB so you can stay somewhere that it's a dump.
  - rwmj 7y ago
    I always think it's amusing that people assume that before the internet nothing like this could possibly have been done. Here's how it worked before the internet: You the property owner would engage a local estate agent [realtor] and they would find tenants for your property. There were both short and long term rentals. Most of the time it would be rented out to someone local. But if someone from another country wanted to do a short term rental, they would contract a company who would have a presence in the foreign country and would in turn be able to contact local estate agents by telephone, get particulars sent through the mail or fax (or if it was really urgent, read out on the phone), and these would find their way back to the prospective tenant. Sure it's not as smooth as clicking on a website, but it was still a thing that was done. (In fact these intermediary companies still exist and are still used especially by businesses that want a full service and don't want to deal with the randomness of Airbnb. I knew someone who worked in a Japan-England company back in the 90s http://www.redacstrattons.com/ http://www.redacstrattons.com/)
nervousvarun 7y ago
Counterpoint: This increased short-term rental market in a lot of cities displaces long-term renters who were priced out...and this disproportionately affects the poor who can't afford to buy property.
- flashyfaffe2 7y ago
  Indeed thats true but with the same logic you could blame companies and public offices for having their offices in the city center.
amiga_500 7y ago
Airbnb are helping the little guy overcome social stigma? You couldn't misrepresent the effect on regular working people more.
- gambiting 7y ago
  What do you mean?

Etheryte 7y ago

Travelling businessmen, university lecturers, coaches of various kind, tourists, all benefit a society greatly in a number of ways. There's a reason every country has a department in one ministry or another that's solely focused on promoting tourism. Rising housing prices are not the fault of a single company but that of bad policymaking.

jbullock35 7y ago

> Someone please tell me one benefit of Airbnb for society It has been an enormous benefit to travelers of all kinds. It has made a huge variety of properties available for short-term rental, and because these rentals are often less expensive than alternatives, it has made travel possible for many who previously couldn't afford it. The benefits are greatest for those who want to travel to expensive places, and to places that have few hotels -- that is, for travelers interested in most of the world's destinations. Airbnb has also helped ordinary people to fight back against the powerful hotel lobbies. Perhaps this isn't a problem in some countries. But it is a grave problem in the United States, where the hotels fight hard to prevent any competition. See especially New York: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hotel-industrys-plan-to-combat-airbnb.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/16/technology/inside-the-hot.... (I've used Airbnb a few times but otherwise have no connection to it.)

dorchadas 7y ago
> It has been an enormous benefit to travelers of all kinds. It has made a huge variety of properties available for short-term rental, and because these rentals are often less expensive than alternatives, it has made travel possible for many who previously couldn't afford it. At the expense of the local populations, especially the working-class and lower socioeconomic classes. Not to mention they've basically become hotels without any regulations. I wouldn't call this a good thing, and certainly don't think travellers should benefit over locals.

flashyfaffe2 7y ago

I'm not sure understand the rationale behind your question. Does a company in general have to provide benefit to the society overall? If so then rather to erase a lot of companies. Airbnb seems to provide a service where their clients are fine with. Like it or not, Airbnb is just the consequence of number of decisions made in the past and they simply put a foot in the highly réglemented real estate, builder, and tourism business by providing a service that was more in line with the current needs. It's not Airbnb s fault if this so difficult to increase the number of new building every year, not Airbnb's fault if a simple landlord can offer better service than an hotel chain, not Airbnb's fault if landlord prefer to deal to less complicated short rent. Airbnb is just taking advantage of a more ugly situation ( sure you have witnessed displeasant adventures encountered in buying house, going to holiday or move out from a flat). However I wouldn't be surprised if they have speeded up the process you blamed. Please note that I do not work nor ever used Airbnb before.

eesmith 7y ago
> Does a company in general have to provide benefit to the society overall? Is your question one of corporate citizenship, or legal obligations? If the former, yes. If the latter, then some countries have legal requirements, like https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/company-reporting-and-auditing/company-reporting/non-financial-reporting_en https://ec.europa.eu/info/business-economy-euro/company-repo... regarding reporting requirements about certain social practices, for large companies in the EU, or https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f2e36590-95bd-4f42-9501-85fa254d7856 https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=f2e36590-95bd... which suggests that Germany may "require businesses to establish a sophisticated compliance management system to protect human rights in their global supply chains." > Airbnb seems to provide a service where their clients are fine with. .. Airbnb is just the consequence of .. I don't understand your statement. Surely there's any number of organizations which provide illegal and/or immoral services, which their clients are fine with. That doesn't mean those services should be allowed to continue, does it? In US history, the Pinkertons were a private detective agency/security force. Its clients hired them (among other things) as strikebreakers. Their anti-union activities included using machine guns, tear gas bombs, and clubs to break up union meetings. Their clients were "fine with" their services, which were "just a consequence of a number of decisions made in the past" and which met "the current needs" of their clients. I don't think these actions of the Pinks were beneficial to society, or morally correct, or something that should be allowed to continue. While, if I understand it, your argument seems to accept that anything which happened (and was legal, and of benefit to its customers), should be allowed to happen in the future, rather than recognizing that some behaviors are so detrimental that they should be made illegal, even when they benefit some.

amiga_500 7y ago

Hacker news always downvotes strong airbnb criticism when you make the main point that they are rentiers. Every. Single. Time.

cycomanic 7y ago

Airbnb as so many other startup that came out of the "sharing economy" are all about internalising profits and externalising risk and costs. I pretty much would argue that most of them don't have do not have any societal benefit. It's even worse many of these don't even have sustainable business models it's all about growth and increasing stock prises while leaving a trail of burned soil in their wake. Prime example uber or all the bike and scooter rental companies.