4 ms·

> I doubt that the birth of the precariat was consciously and intentionally master planned by anyone. It was consciously and intentionally create, but the plan

by pdkl95 7y ago

> I doubt that the birth of the precariat was consciously and intentionally master planned by anyone. It was consciously and intentionally create, but the planning is usually obscured behind euphemisms. Nobody directly says they are trying to make employment more precarious; they say they are making a new type of business that is "more efficient". > unintended consequences The consequences may not be intended, but pretending they weren't obvious results of a new design is gross negligence. The long term economic impact and its secondary/tertiary effects on society of a "gig-economy" business "disrupting" a traditional employer are hard to predict. The fact that it would make a lot of people's employment far more precarious is not only obvious, it's the core feature that differentiates the new type of business.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
I began doing gig work while deathly ill and homeless. It was the only kind of paid work I had access to and the world absolutely wasn't throwing money at me out of compassion for my terrible sob story. (I have a genetic disorder, no criminal record etc etc so I'm one of the clearly "unfortunate and deserving poor.") I happen to work for a service that is well designed and gives me control over the things that matter to me. It also has a low barrier to entry but doesn't have a low ceiling. It's possible to make a middle class income this way. So I'm quite convinced that efficiency isn't simply some polite euphemism for "fuck you." I think it's possible to design gig work platforms that work well for the workers. I'm hardly the only person on the planet for whom many regular jobs are simply out of the question. I think the efficiency gains are real and can be managed in a way that is good for all involved parties. I think gig work can be the next industrial revolution where we make it possible for ordinary people to have some of the things historically reserved for the jet set. Because my income was portable, I was able to take a train to another state and get back into housing in a cheaper state than California. For many poor people, that's unimaginable. They would need to look for a job in the new location, which would mean having no income for a time because, say, waitressing jobs don't hire you from out of state typically. I got to work as much or as little as I chose. It was dictated by my health to a large degree, which was enormously frustrating, but it meant that when I was feeling better, I could immediately earn money again. I didn't have to job hunt. For me, gig work was nothing short of a miracle allowing me to have some earned income under circumstances where that should have been simply impossible. So, sorry, I don't think so.
- raws 7y ago
  I don't think you can use your own anecdotal case to disprove a huge societal movement affecting tens of millions when in some cases the current market offerings albeit inflexible in some of their aspects and need a revamp already exist and cover the great majority of the market ie: cabs vs uberlikes. Edit1: Could you clarify, I'm curious as to what kind of the jet set class items would be accessible at the entry level or not so far high in the gig-econ? Edit2: Also I do not mean to say that the gig-econ does not offer economical sustenance or reinsertion for workers that cannot endure more classical jobs but they're the great minority in these kind of jobs but that is just my own opinion and read on the market
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    I had portable income and the freedom to go where I wanted more or less at will. My case doesn't prove that millions of people aren't being given a raw deal. It just indicates that gig work doesn't have to be a raw deal and it is possible to design systems that work well. I've tried to promote that idea in the past. It didn't really catch on. Most people basically agree with you and feel that I'm some bizarro statistical outlier and not really an example of how to do this well and what we should be aiming for. As long as the people creating startups generally agree with you, we will continue to see more gig work that craps all over the workers. I don't think it has to be that way. I don't think it should be that way. I see enormous potential for gig work to make the world a better place. But the world is probably not going to stop being a shitty place full of shitty people just because I'm capable of envisioning something better sprouting from the muck. Most likely, such visions will continue to be crushed under the boot of those in power and continue to go nowhere fast. Same as it ever was. Edit2: Also I do not mean to say that the gig-econ does not offer economical sustenance or reinsertion for workers that cannot endure more classical jobs but they're the great minority in these kind of jobs but that is just my own opinion and read on the market I've seen data that suggests that up to 60 percent of people are at least moderately handicapped. Most downplay it and don't want to wear the label "handicapped" or "disabled." Such people benefit enormously from having more control over their lives, such as when, where and how much they work. This is one of the things rich people tend to have more of than poor people and I think it has substantial impacts on health, productivity and quality of life. But it's like 4:30 am where I am and I hope to sleep soon, so I don't care to drone on at great length about this topic, though I no doubt could.

by pdkl95 7y ago

DoreenMichele 7y ago

I began doing gig work while deathly ill and homeless. It was the only kind of paid work I had access to and the world absolutely wasn't throwing money at me out of compassion for my terrible sob story. (I have a genetic disorder, no criminal record etc etc so I'm one of the clearly "unfortunate and deserving poor.") I happen to work for a service that is well designed and gives me control over the things that matter to me. It also has a low barrier to entry but doesn't have a low ceiling. It's possible to make a middle class income this way. So I'm quite convinced that efficiency isn't simply some polite euphemism for "fuck you." I think it's possible to design gig work platforms that work well for the workers. I'm hardly the only person on the planet for whom many regular jobs are simply out of the question. I think the efficiency gains are real and can be managed in a way that is good for all involved parties. I think gig work can be the next industrial revolution where we make it possible for ordinary people to have some of the things historically reserved for the jet set. Because my income was portable, I was able to take a train to another state and get back into housing in a cheaper state than California. For many poor people, that's unimaginable. They would need to look for a job in the new location, which would mean having no income for a time because, say, waitressing jobs don't hire you from out of state typically. I got to work as much or as little as I chose. It was dictated by my health to a large degree, which was enormously frustrating, but it meant that when I was feeling better, I could immediately earn money again. I didn't have to job hunt. For me, gig work was nothing short of a miracle allowing me to have some earned income under circumstances where that should have been simply impossible. So, sorry, I don't think so.

raws 7y ago
I don't think you can use your own anecdotal case to disprove a huge societal movement affecting tens of millions when in some cases the current market offerings albeit inflexible in some of their aspects and need a revamp already exist and cover the great majority of the market ie: cabs vs uberlikes. Edit1: Could you clarify, I'm curious as to what kind of the jet set class items would be accessible at the entry level or not so far high in the gig-econ? Edit2: Also I do not mean to say that the gig-econ does not offer economical sustenance or reinsertion for workers that cannot endure more classical jobs but they're the great minority in these kind of jobs but that is just my own opinion and read on the market
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  I had portable income and the freedom to go where I wanted more or less at will. My case doesn't prove that millions of people aren't being given a raw deal. It just indicates that gig work doesn't have to be a raw deal and it is possible to design systems that work well. I've tried to promote that idea in the past. It didn't really catch on. Most people basically agree with you and feel that I'm some bizarro statistical outlier and not really an example of how to do this well and what we should be aiming for. As long as the people creating startups generally agree with you, we will continue to see more gig work that craps all over the workers. I don't think it has to be that way. I don't think it should be that way. I see enormous potential for gig work to make the world a better place. But the world is probably not going to stop being a shitty place full of shitty people just because I'm capable of envisioning something better sprouting from the muck. Most likely, such visions will continue to be crushed under the boot of those in power and continue to go nowhere fast. Same as it ever was. Edit2: Also I do not mean to say that the gig-econ does not offer economical sustenance or reinsertion for workers that cannot endure more classical jobs but they're the great minority in these kind of jobs but that is just my own opinion and read on the market I've seen data that suggests that up to 60 percent of people are at least moderately handicapped. Most downplay it and don't want to wear the label "handicapped" or "disabled." Such people benefit enormously from having more control over their lives, such as when, where and how much they work. This is one of the things rich people tend to have more of than poor people and I think it has substantial impacts on health, productivity and quality of life. But it's like 4:30 am where I am and I hope to sleep soon, so I don't care to drone on at great length about this topic, though I no doubt could.