4 ms·

> Because dead bodies tend to behave characteristically, are inconvenient both directly and via surviving relations, and present a smaller testing target (about

> Because dead bodies tend to behave characteristically, are inconvenient both directly and via surviving relations, and present a smaller testing target (about 1% of total cases) as well as representing a full course-of-illness endpoint, these data should be generally more reliable and cross-regionally consistent than confirmed cases. Deaths are, however, lagged by about two weeks. Completely agree. Just to add another source of differences between countries for this metric: Some countries test post-mortem (Italy) others don't (Germany).

outside1234 7y ago
Didn't realize that - that is also a good explanation for why Germany has less deaths per million in published numbers: they just aren't testing everyone that dies.
- emn13 7y ago
  It's not completely impossible, but it's considered unlikely; people are sometimes tested post mortem (it's simply not a general policy), and people are usually tested before it gets that far. cite: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-puzzles-experts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-co...
dredmorbius 7y ago
Oooh.... Source on the DE lack of PM Dx?
- weinzierl 7y ago
  See my answer to mns in this thread for sources.
  - dredmorbius 7y ago
    Seen, as well as substantive corroboration elsewhere. Very concerning. Thanks.
mns 7y ago
Do you have a source for that? Asking as a person living in Germany, I never heard something like that.
- weinzierl 7y ago
  I have this info from one of Robert Koch institutes press conferences from a few days ago. If I remember correctly it was claimed by a journalist in the Q and A section and not objected to in the answer from Robert Koch institutes president Lothar H. Wieler. EDIT: Here is another source in cold print (search for "posthum"): https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article206741617/Coronavirus-Auslandspresse-staunt-ueber-Deutschlands-Todesrate.html https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article206741617/Coronav...
KarlKemp 7y ago
I’m not going to believe that without a good source. Testing in Germany is at 5000,000/week now, so anyone admitted to hospital would definitely be tested. A friend of mine here in Berlin had symptoms. They called and a team came to their place the next morning. One day later, they were called and got the test results (negative). The explanation for the relatively low fatality rate I’ve heard is simply widespread testing catching many mild cases and relatively young patients because a lot of initial cases at least were linked to ski holidays and carnival events. Personally, I would add the hypothesis that Germans have far fewer interactions with family members across generations than especially Italy, but also the US. No one I know lived with their parents after finishing school. In the US, when Harvard shut down for the semester, the undergrads all went home to family. Here, students tend to live in regular apartments. And even those in student housing live there year-round, instead of vacating them during breaks and heading home. I believe Austria and some other smaller European countries are also seeing at least similar CFRs, making Germany somewhat less exceptional.
- lmeyerov 7y ago
  We had a suspicious surprise death in the family 2w ago that the German hospital did not test (early outbreak + sudden death) nor autopsy and we suspect real chance COVID was a secondary factor that merited at least a check. Internal medicine md phd in our family, so no joke. Ok they didn't test, but we were surprised they did not autospy. Sad way to confirm SOP. For others: In the US, you can ~always request an autopsy.
- weinzierl 7y ago
  See my answer to mns in this thread for the sources.
iSnow 7y ago
>Some countries test post-mortem (Italy) others don't (Germany). It's true and misleading at the same time. True: Germany doesn't do post-mortem tests on people not tested before. But at the same time, everyone who dies and has a SARS2-infection is counted as a COVID-death, whether or not they died from the infection.
- DuskStar 7y ago
  > True: Germany doesn't do post-mortem tests on people not tested before. But at the same time, everyone who dies and has a SARS2-infection is counted as a COVID-death, whether or not they died from the infection. But how do you know that they had a SARS-2 infection if you're not testing?
  - inportb 7y ago
    You test them ante-mortem.

outside1234 7y ago

Didn't realize that - that is also a good explanation for why Germany has less deaths per million in published numbers: they just aren't testing everyone that dies.

emn13 7y ago
It's not completely impossible, but it's considered unlikely; people are sometimes tested post mortem (it's simply not a general policy), and people are usually tested before it gets that far. cite: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-puzzles-experts https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/22/germany-low-co...

dredmorbius 7y ago

Oooh.... Source on the DE lack of PM Dx?

weinzierl 7y ago
See my answer to mns in this thread for sources.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Seen, as well as substantive corroboration elsewhere. Very concerning. Thanks.

mns 7y ago

Do you have a source for that? Asking as a person living in Germany, I never heard something like that.

weinzierl 7y ago
I have this info from one of Robert Koch institutes press conferences from a few days ago. If I remember correctly it was claimed by a journalist in the Q and A section and not objected to in the answer from Robert Koch institutes president Lothar H. Wieler. EDIT: Here is another source in cold print (search for "posthum"): https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article206741617/Coronavirus-Auslandspresse-staunt-ueber-Deutschlands-Todesrate.html https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article206741617/Coronav...

KarlKemp 7y ago

I’m not going to believe that without a good source. Testing in Germany is at 5000,000/week now, so anyone admitted to hospital would definitely be tested. A friend of mine here in Berlin had symptoms. They called and a team came to their place the next morning. One day later, they were called and got the test results (negative). The explanation for the relatively low fatality rate I’ve heard is simply widespread testing catching many mild cases and relatively young patients because a lot of initial cases at least were linked to ski holidays and carnival events. Personally, I would add the hypothesis that Germans have far fewer interactions with family members across generations than especially Italy, but also the US. No one I know lived with their parents after finishing school. In the US, when Harvard shut down for the semester, the undergrads all went home to family. Here, students tend to live in regular apartments. And even those in student housing live there year-round, instead of vacating them during breaks and heading home. I believe Austria and some other smaller European countries are also seeing at least similar CFRs, making Germany somewhat less exceptional.

lmeyerov 7y ago
We had a suspicious surprise death in the family 2w ago that the German hospital did not test (early outbreak + sudden death) nor autopsy and we suspect real chance COVID was a secondary factor that merited at least a check. Internal medicine md phd in our family, so no joke. Ok they didn't test, but we were surprised they did not autospy. Sad way to confirm SOP. For others: In the US, you can ~always request an autopsy.
weinzierl 7y ago
See my answer to mns in this thread for the sources.

iSnow 7y ago

>Some countries test post-mortem (Italy) others don't (Germany). It's true and misleading at the same time. True: Germany doesn't do post-mortem tests on people not tested before. But at the same time, everyone who dies and has a SARS2-infection is counted as a COVID-death, whether or not they died from the infection.

DuskStar 7y ago
> True: Germany doesn't do post-mortem tests on people not tested before. But at the same time, everyone who dies and has a SARS2-infection is counted as a COVID-death, whether or not they died from the infection. But how do you know that they had a SARS-2 infection if you're not testing?
- inportb 7y ago
  You test them ante-mortem.