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China is indeed very divise for our global powerstructures. This Video shows a WHO official battling with this(if you want to look kindly upon him): https://tw

China is indeed very divise for our global powerstructures. This Video shows a WHO official battling with this(if you want to look kindly upon him): https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1243889673207832577 https://twitter.com/nathanlawkc/status/1243889673207832577 What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road.

echelon 7y ago
> What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road. I thought the same and I have no family ties there. (Though back in the early 00's I had fun studying in China and had wished to return.) I'm more worried about what happens if we don't speak out. While we need to fix our Western democracies, we can't ignore the biggest threat to freedom in the world. I think this virus situation could potentially unite the world in looking critically at supply chains and the CCP's motives and behavior. When this is all over, I hope every county tallies the bill for the virus and subtracts that from their debt to China. The CCP lied, hid information, and told us to keep travel open while simultaneously welding people inside their homes. They then shifted blame to the West and threatened to cut off critical medical supplies. It's worse than negligent, and they should lose their investments overseas to repay the damage done.
- chrischen 7y ago
  > When this is all over, I hope every county tallies the bill for the virus and subtracts that from their debt to China. They lied, hid information, and told us to keep travel open while simultaneously welding people inside their homes. It's worse than negligent, and they should lose their investments overseas to repay the damage done. I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China. We didn't really trust anything coming out of China before so why would we conveniently be expected to trust China regarding the virus? There was also plenty of time to see warning signs in countries like South Korea... not to mention several countries that much higher risk for the spread of the virus have contained it (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore). If you are to believe Trump then he saved a lot of lives by banning travel from China... and then killed a lot of people by doing absolutely nothing after that.
  - echelon 7y ago
    > I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China. I pay the administration no mind whatsoever. The way this has been handed by Trump is beyond incompetent. Placing the blame on China is an opinion I reached entirely on my own while the president was still out golfing. I'm speaking out because I want our leadership to take action. I'll be asking my representatives to stick China with the bill. (They probably won't listen since I've been begging them to shut down and that hasn't happened. But maybe we can collectively turn this meme into compelling policy.) > why would we conveniently be expected to trust China China had an obligation to its citizens and to the world. The CCP decided they didn't care if the virus went worldwide. That's homicide, and they should pay for making people whole again. I'm probably going to lose family members because of this, and I'm very mad about it.
    - paul7986 7y ago
      China looks to be bouncing back ... how bad has COVID affected their economy vs. all other economies? Is COVID going to help them in the global economy? If so, I wouldn't put it past China as unleashing this virus on the world purposely. Before COVID China had SARS. Why are these virus all coming from there?
      - chrischen 7y ago
        Viruses can mutate and come from anywhere. Granted that animal market probably was not very hygienic, H1N1, Spanish Flu (which did not originate from Spain), pox viruses, mad cow, all did not originate from China. You're probably holding this opinion because those are the freshest in your mind?
        paul7986 7y ago
        Not into conspiracies and this as of now has been unproven. Though Wuhan is now open for business giving China a head start on restarting their economy while everyone elses is completely stopped. Do you not think that is going to boost their economy and make it stronger then almost all others???
- jacobajit 7y ago
  I think this rhetoric is a bit over the top. If anything this pandemic is going to buy China goodwill and stature based on their relatively strong posturing on the way out of crisis (vis a vis US) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-us-traditionally-leads-in-times-of-crisis-now-its-practicing-self-isolation/2020/03/25/1fa3f9b6-6d38-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-us-traditionally-le...
  - i_have_suffered 7y ago
    Also they have supplied aid to Italy and Spain (although also screwed up with medical supplies to Spain).
    - mrighele 7y ago
      They also screwed up (faulty masks and/or test) at the minimum with Netherlands, Czech Republic and Turkey.
    - enriquto 7y ago
      > although also screwed up with medical supplies to Spain The "screwing up" of medical supplies in Spain is due to the incompetence and corruption of the Spanish government. They tried to arrange directly for the buying of supplies, bypassing the common importation route used by health officials. Unfortunately, and despite the repeated warnings of the Chinese embassy and many hospital managers, they ended up buying the supplies to a non-homologated Chinese startup, so the supplies cannot be used.
- rootsudo 7y ago
  So Roko's basilisk was China all along.
systemvoltage 7y ago
The chilling effect is very real. Beware everyone. Where is the press over this?
- zobzu 7y ago
  Interestingly a good part of the western press is pro-China. Just look at the COVID-19 coverage. We now know China lied on numbers (not that I think anyone here doubted of that), but western press was happy to push the narrative that China handled it so well (nvm the fact that they let it out to other countries to begin with). What do they gain from this? I don't know. It's definitely not the first time i see this.
  - rfoo 7y ago
    Have you ever considered that "China lied on numbers" might also be part of the narrative the western press pushed?
ganzuul 7y ago
This rhetoric against China, legitimate or not, seems like a precursor to war. I wish somebody would investigate if a troll factory is behind it or if it truly is a popular opinion.
- comboy 7y ago
  The whole idea behind these trolls is that they repeat stuff until it becomes popular opinion. It's hard to stay objective, we tend to agree with majority (Asch cconformity experiments would be an example but this is way more subtle and harder to control). You are correct with the war. And what we are talking about is not even a conspiracy theory. You can watch a top US general talking about it [1]. I see almost no comments like yours, only how China is evil. There is propaganda on both sides. But what worries me that here in the west most people don't seem to be aware of it. I think people accepted that political news they are getting is biased based on who is delivering it, but somehow it is not generalized to politics outside the country. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTYgcdNrXE&t=841s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTYgcdNrXE&t=841s
- rumanator 7y ago
  I for one am surprised that anyone who is aware of some of the actions perpetrated by China's ruling regime with regards to their handling of the covid19 outbreak feels that they don't warant any criticism, and tried to pin any criticism on conspiracy theories involving troll farms and beating war drums.
  - yurlungur 7y ago
    Of course one can and should assign blame where it is due to the CCP. But demanding vengeful reparations from the whole country is pretty much a precursor to war. I can totally imagine a few leaders riling up public emotions this way and also conveniently directing all responsibilities outwards. I really hope the world doesn't repeat the history of the last century like that.
    - rumanator 7y ago

echelon 7y ago

> What bugs me is that I'm really unsure if I should post anything critical of China, it's scary what that could mean for my family 30 years down the road. I thought the same and I have no family ties there. (Though back in the early 00's I had fun studying in China and had wished to return.) I'm more worried about what happens if we don't speak out. While we need to fix our Western democracies, we can't ignore the biggest threat to freedom in the world. I think this virus situation could potentially unite the world in looking critically at supply chains and the CCP's motives and behavior. When this is all over, I hope every county tallies the bill for the virus and subtracts that from their debt to China. The CCP lied, hid information, and told us to keep travel open while simultaneously welding people inside their homes. They then shifted blame to the West and threatened to cut off critical medical supplies. It's worse than negligent, and they should lose their investments overseas to repay the damage done.

chrischen 7y ago
> When this is all over, I hope every county tallies the bill for the virus and subtracts that from their debt to China. They lied, hid information, and told us to keep travel open while simultaneously welding people inside their homes. It's worse than negligent, and they should lose their investments overseas to repay the damage done. I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China. We didn't really trust anything coming out of China before so why would we conveniently be expected to trust China regarding the virus? There was also plenty of time to see warning signs in countries like South Korea... not to mention several countries that much higher risk for the spread of the virus have contained it (Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore). If you are to believe Trump then he saved a lot of lives by banning travel from China... and then killed a lot of people by doing absolutely nothing after that.
- echelon 7y ago
  > I think you're being generous to the administration for assigning blame to China. I pay the administration no mind whatsoever. The way this has been handed by Trump is beyond incompetent. Placing the blame on China is an opinion I reached entirely on my own while the president was still out golfing. I'm speaking out because I want our leadership to take action. I'll be asking my representatives to stick China with the bill. (They probably won't listen since I've been begging them to shut down and that hasn't happened. But maybe we can collectively turn this meme into compelling policy.) > why would we conveniently be expected to trust China China had an obligation to its citizens and to the world. The CCP decided they didn't care if the virus went worldwide. That's homicide, and they should pay for making people whole again. I'm probably going to lose family members because of this, and I'm very mad about it.
  - paul7986 7y ago
    China looks to be bouncing back ... how bad has COVID affected their economy vs. all other economies? Is COVID going to help them in the global economy? If so, I wouldn't put it past China as unleashing this virus on the world purposely. Before COVID China had SARS. Why are these virus all coming from there?
    - chrischen 7y ago
      Viruses can mutate and come from anywhere. Granted that animal market probably was not very hygienic, H1N1, Spanish Flu (which did not originate from Spain), pox viruses, mad cow, all did not originate from China. You're probably holding this opinion because those are the freshest in your mind?
      - paul7986 7y ago
        Not into conspiracies and this as of now has been unproven. Though Wuhan is now open for business giving China a head start on restarting their economy while everyone elses is completely stopped. Do you not think that is going to boost their economy and make it stronger then almost all others???
jacobajit 7y ago
I think this rhetoric is a bit over the top. If anything this pandemic is going to buy China goodwill and stature based on their relatively strong posturing on the way out of crisis (vis a vis US) https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-us-traditionally-leads-in-times-of-crisis-now-its-practicing-self-isolation/2020/03/25/1fa3f9b6-6d38-11ea-a156-0048b62cdb51_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the-us-traditionally-le...
- i_have_suffered 7y ago
  Also they have supplied aid to Italy and Spain (although also screwed up with medical supplies to Spain).
  - mrighele 7y ago
    They also screwed up (faulty masks and/or test) at the minimum with Netherlands, Czech Republic and Turkey.
  - enriquto 7y ago
    > although also screwed up with medical supplies to Spain The "screwing up" of medical supplies in Spain is due to the incompetence and corruption of the Spanish government. They tried to arrange directly for the buying of supplies, bypassing the common importation route used by health officials. Unfortunately, and despite the repeated warnings of the Chinese embassy and many hospital managers, they ended up buying the supplies to a non-homologated Chinese startup, so the supplies cannot be used.
rootsudo 7y ago
So Roko's basilisk was China all along.

systemvoltage 7y ago

The chilling effect is very real. Beware everyone. Where is the press over this?

zobzu 7y ago
Interestingly a good part of the western press is pro-China. Just look at the COVID-19 coverage. We now know China lied on numbers (not that I think anyone here doubted of that), but western press was happy to push the narrative that China handled it so well (nvm the fact that they let it out to other countries to begin with). What do they gain from this? I don't know. It's definitely not the first time i see this.
- rfoo 7y ago
  Have you ever considered that "China lied on numbers" might also be part of the narrative the western press pushed?

ganzuul 7y ago

This rhetoric against China, legitimate or not, seems like a precursor to war. I wish somebody would investigate if a troll factory is behind it or if it truly is a popular opinion.

comboy 7y ago
The whole idea behind these trolls is that they repeat stuff until it becomes popular opinion. It's hard to stay objective, we tend to agree with majority (Asch cconformity experiments would be an example but this is way more subtle and harder to control). You are correct with the war. And what we are talking about is not even a conspiracy theory. You can watch a top US general talking about it [1]. I see almost no comments like yours, only how China is evil. There is propaganda on both sides. But what worries me that here in the west most people don't seem to be aware of it. I think people accepted that political news they are getting is biased based on who is delivering it, but somehow it is not generalized to politics outside the country. 1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTYgcdNrXE&t=841s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTYgcdNrXE&t=841s
rumanator 7y ago
I for one am surprised that anyone who is aware of some of the actions perpetrated by China's ruling regime with regards to their handling of the covid19 outbreak feels that they don't warant any criticism, and tried to pin any criticism on conspiracy theories involving troll farms and beating war drums.
- yurlungur 7y ago
  Of course one can and should assign blame where it is due to the CCP. But demanding vengeful reparations from the whole country is pretty much a precursor to war. I can totally imagine a few leaders riling up public emotions this way and also conveniently directing all responsibilities outwards. I really hope the world doesn't repeat the history of the last century like that.
  - rumanator 7y ago