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Even if a mask doesn't protect a person sneezing into your face from transmitting the virus to you, that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise... a

Even if a mask doesn't protect a person sneezing into your face from transmitting the virus to you, that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise... and hospitals wouldn't be clamoring for them if they were ineffective (https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-would-hospitals-forbid-physicians-and-nurses-from-wearing-masks/ https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-would-...). With just a bit of common sense you can reason that masks absolutely do help prevent the spread of the virus: 1. A strong mask culture in dense areas means that even sick people will be incentivized to wear masks, which is known to be effective in limiting transmission. Studies on airplanes have shown that a sick person wearing a mask can stop the transmission on a plane. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/) 2. The mask prevents you from touching your mouth with your hands, and reminds you to not touch your face. 3. Many people in Japan wear masks to prevent stuff from their own mouths going into other peoples' faces, and not for the commonly assumed selfish reasons for wearing one that Americans keep focusing on. 4. The effectiveness of masks is not binary. Recommendations against using masks probably come because a) people are probably doing other things that are already higher risk than not wearing a mask and b) there is a shortage of masks. Some more tidbits cited from the study: Less efficient face masks (e.g., surgical or medical) also decrease exposure to aerosols of droplet nuclei to a lesser (8–12 fold) degree than N95 masks (36), and they provide protection against larger droplets. We did not determine the type of mask worn by the passengers; presumably, individually acquired masks represented a mixture of N95 and other less efficient masks. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23968983/)

brigandish 7y ago
I'll take this in parts which I always think looks aggressive but I assure you it's not. We're all concerned and want the best :) > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. > 2. The mask prevents you from touching your mouth with your hands, and reminds you to not touch your face. If you've worn one or watched people on the train in Japan or across Asia you'll know this isn't true at all. People are forever readjusting it. > 3. Many people in Japan wear masks to prevent stuff from their own mouths going into other peoples' faces, and not for the commonly assumed selfish reasons for wearing one that Americans keep focusing on. They wear them for many reasons, and they're people so they're just as selfish as Americans or anyone else, and that's certainly my experience. 4b is certainly true. 4a is partly true because if people aren't going to use masks correctly - and they don't - then there really is no point to them other than to deny people access to them by those who really need them, and in settings that studies really have shown a positive effect.
- verroq 7y ago
  > Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. > Most people aren't sick. How do you know this given the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic.
  - brigandish 7y ago
    I'm going by what is known now, or else how would I ever be able to comment on anything?
    - verroq 7y ago
      The whole point is to prep for the future, if you target the present you’re always going to be one step behind.
      - brigandish 7y ago
        This isn't a student debate on epistemology, but if it were I'd begin by asking how you prep for the future without knowledge of the present situation. As it isn't a student debate on epistemology I think we can leave this conversation here.
- chrischen 7y ago
  > > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise >It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. I don't see the logical reasoning behind why it has to be effective over the entire period of use. The whole rational behind curve flattening is that we do as much as possible to reduce transmission. So being partially effective will still reduce the number of transmission and the chances of transmission. Plus by normalizing mask usage more sick people will be encouraged to use masks because it is socially acceptable. A lot of people don't use masks even if they are sick because 1) lack of testing to confirm coronavirus and 2) embarrassment over using a mask because it is weird. It's easy for someone to decide to wear a mask or quarantine if they know they have Covid-19, but if they are just sick or mildly sick, or even asymptomatic, the decision to wear a mask or quarantine is much harder because they have to balance their other needs with the chances that they may just have the common cold. > If you've worn one or watched people on the train in Japan or across Asia you'll know this isn't true at all. People are forever readjusting it. Seeing as how there is a physical barrier over your mouth I don't see how you cannot use common sense to see that it is true. Not to mention my cited research study uses it as a potential reason why the masks were shown to be effective. > They wear them for many reasons, and they're people so they're just as selfish as Americans or anyone else, and that's certainly my experience. I guess this is a matter of opinion, so I can't really argue that you don't believe it.

brigandish 7y ago

I'll take this in parts which I always think looks aggressive but I assure you it's not. We're all concerned and want the best :) > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. > 2. The mask prevents you from touching your mouth with your hands, and reminds you to not touch your face. If you've worn one or watched people on the train in Japan or across Asia you'll know this isn't true at all. People are forever readjusting it. > 3. Many people in Japan wear masks to prevent stuff from their own mouths going into other peoples' faces, and not for the commonly assumed selfish reasons for wearing one that Americans keep focusing on. They wear them for many reasons, and they're people so they're just as selfish as Americans or anyone else, and that's certainly my experience. 4b is certainly true. 4a is partly true because if people aren't going to use masks correctly - and they don't - then there really is no point to them other than to deny people access to them by those who really need them, and in settings that studies really have shown a positive effect.

verroq 7y ago
> Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. > Most people aren't sick. How do you know this given the vast majority of cases are asymptomatic.
- brigandish 7y ago
  I'm going by what is known now, or else how would I ever be able to comment on anything?
  - verroq 7y ago
    The whole point is to prep for the future, if you target the present you’re always going to be one step behind.
    - brigandish 7y ago
      This isn't a student debate on epistemology, but if it were I'd begin by asking how you prep for the future without knowledge of the present situation. As it isn't a student debate on epistemology I think we can leave this conversation here.
chrischen 7y ago
> > that hardly means that it is 100% ineffective otherwise >It may not be 100% ineffective for a single event, it needs to be effective over the entire period of use. Point 1, yes, sick people should wear masks. This is already known. Most people aren't sick. I don't see the logical reasoning behind why it has to be effective over the entire period of use. The whole rational behind curve flattening is that we do as much as possible to reduce transmission. So being partially effective will still reduce the number of transmission and the chances of transmission. Plus by normalizing mask usage more sick people will be encouraged to use masks because it is socially acceptable. A lot of people don't use masks even if they are sick because 1) lack of testing to confirm coronavirus and 2) embarrassment over using a mask because it is weird. It's easy for someone to decide to wear a mask or quarantine if they know they have Covid-19, but if they are just sick or mildly sick, or even asymptomatic, the decision to wear a mask or quarantine is much harder because they have to balance their other needs with the chances that they may just have the common cold. > If you've worn one or watched people on the train in Japan or across Asia you'll know this isn't true at all. People are forever readjusting it. Seeing as how there is a physical barrier over your mouth I don't see how you cannot use common sense to see that it is true. Not to mention my cited research study uses it as a potential reason why the masks were shown to be effective. > They wear them for many reasons, and they're people so they're just as selfish as Americans or anyone else, and that's certainly my experience. I guess this is a matter of opinion, so I can't really argue that you don't believe it.