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Assange also engaged in information warfare himself, for what it's worth. Including spreading fear about the Pizzagate (Clinton child molestation in pizza shop)

Assange also engaged in information warfare himself, for what it's worth. Including spreading fear about the Pizzagate (Clinton child molestation in pizza shop) conspiracy theory. https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821595404500430848 https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/821595404500430848 I recall at least one other tweet where they did this, but can't seem to find it right now.

xrd 7y ago
That's fascinating and adds much to my understanding. Interesting.
- meowface 7y ago
  I have mixed feelings about him and WikiLeaks. I do think he's being unfairly persecuted by global governments (though surely he knew this was a likely risk from the start), and they have released information that was in the public interest, but at the same time, the CIA director calling them a "hostile intelligence service" doesn't seem wrong. [0] In their leaked group chat logs (https://emma.best/2018/07/29/11000-messages-from-private-wikileaks-chat-released/ https://emma.best/2018/07/29/11000-messages-from-private-wik...), they behave exactly like a "para-intelligence agency" ("para" as in "paramilitary"). They happily use deceit, trickery, sockpuppetry, trolls, propaganda, and spreading of fear, doubt, and conspiracy theories to achieve their end goals, and their end goals seem to be to push things in a certain direction to achieve particular geopolitical results. Whether or not you agree with Assange's goals, he appears to have a strong "ends justify the means" mentality, much like the militaries and intelligence agencies he's opposing. Their tactics really seem identical to any intelligence agency's, at least from an information and non-kinetic perspective. And note this was a semi-private group just to talk to their supporters. One can only imagine what their internal, top secret-classified chats and phone calls are like. I suspect those would make them look even worse than they already do, and, again, I bet they would look very similar to the most secretive of CIA meetings. Maybe it's one of those "die or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" situations, or maybe Assange was always like this. I don't know. But they're very far from a journalistic organization, or a "Wiki", or a disinterested distributor of leaked information. They are highly political. Ironically, if they had more power or national backing [1], there would probably be a "WikiLeaks" trying to inform people about them. This sort of thing seems to be a phenomenon that repeats itself over and over again in history. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/14/cia-director-brands-wikileaks-a-hostile-intelligence-service https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/14/cia-director... [1] Some claim they work with Russian intelligence or are even backed by Russia, but I think it's more that Russian intelligence just saw them as a useful tool for a particular operation. I don't think any nation backs them.
Natsu 7y ago
Some Todd & Claire site that appeared out of nowhere tried to frame Assange for being a pedophile while he was locked in an embassy, while you're at it. You call that "Pizzagate," but none of the stuff claims anything about Clinton at all as far as I can see, it's just Alefantis' weird Instagram (and former business logos) or Podesta's odd taste in artwork and word choices, which are well-documented and archived, but certainly not proof that any of them engaged in anything like child exploitation. Additionally, many of the emails can be verified via DKIM and this has been done in an HN story from the time.
- meowface 7y ago
  >Some Todd & Claire site that appeared out of nowhere tried to frame Assange for being a pedophile while he was locked in an embassy, while you're at it. I mean, sure, plenty of people have lied about Assange and WikiLeaks, obviously. >You call that "Pizzagate," but none of the stuff claims anything about Clinton at all as far as I can see, it's just Alefantis' weird Instagram (and former business logos) or Podesta's odd taste in artwork and word choices, which are well-documented and archived, but certainly not proof that any of them engaged in anything like child exploitation. WikiLeaks' tweet says: >>CBS Reality Check covers Pizzagate. https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641910334089/ https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641... >>https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf I'm just referring to what they tweeted. Clearly this was to spread suspicion that the emails, which they leaked, might indicate Clinton is involved with pedophiles (i.e. spreading fear that Pizzagate may be real). I believe they also had one other tweet hinting at the same thing, which I remember seeing at the time, but I can't find it right now. They didn't come right out and say it explicitly, but it's an attempt at propaganda. And if you're trying to convince me that Pizzagate is fake: yes, I absolutely know it's a bullshit unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. It seems like your post should be directed at Assange, instead? I'm having trouble understanding what point you're trying to make. >Additionally, many of the emails can be verified via DKIM and this has been done in an HN story from the time. Who's disputing that? I know the emails are almost certainly legit.
  - Natsu 7y ago
jakeogh 7y ago
Google image search changed drastically recently. Have you searched for (NSFW!) "podesta art" and "jimmy comet instagram"? https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/37543 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/37543
- meowface 7y ago
  And?
  - jakeogh 7y ago
    Is that a "no, I have not reviewed Jimmy Comet's instagram"?
    - meowface 7y ago
      I have reviewed it and see no issue with it, or with any of the other Pizzagate claims. I believe Pizzagate is a complete hoax. As is "9/11 truth", which you have listed in your profile.
      - jakeogh 7y ago
        Ya totally normal tagging that baby pic #chickenlovers. Nothing odd at all about the "49th most powerful person in DC" tagging an infant #hotard. People should review the full archive, and his comments. RE distraction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21057230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21057230
        meowface 7y ago
        That's two posts you've made now saying that people accusing things of being conspiracy theories or presenting conspiracy theories are themselves in fact conspiracy theories to confuse people from learning the truth. Ok. Let me guess, I'm also part of the conspiracy? 9/11 wasn't an inside job. Comet Ping Pong isn't associated with pedophilia. The guaranteed dozens of other conspiracy theories you believe (Sandy Hook, Clinton body count, FEMA death camps, probably climate change denial) are also untrue. There's a reason why belief in one conspiracy theory almost always leads to belief in most or all of them, and why others don't want to try to debate with people such as yourself.

xrd 7y ago

That's fascinating and adds much to my understanding. Interesting.

meowface 7y ago
I have mixed feelings about him and WikiLeaks. I do think he's being unfairly persecuted by global governments (though surely he knew this was a likely risk from the start), and they have released information that was in the public interest, but at the same time, the CIA director calling them a "hostile intelligence service" doesn't seem wrong. [0] In their leaked group chat logs (https://emma.best/2018/07/29/11000-messages-from-private-wikileaks-chat-released/ https://emma.best/2018/07/29/11000-messages-from-private-wik...), they behave exactly like a "para-intelligence agency" ("para" as in "paramilitary"). They happily use deceit, trickery, sockpuppetry, trolls, propaganda, and spreading of fear, doubt, and conspiracy theories to achieve their end goals, and their end goals seem to be to push things in a certain direction to achieve particular geopolitical results. Whether or not you agree with Assange's goals, he appears to have a strong "ends justify the means" mentality, much like the militaries and intelligence agencies he's opposing. Their tactics really seem identical to any intelligence agency's, at least from an information and non-kinetic perspective. And note this was a semi-private group just to talk to their supporters. One can only imagine what their internal, top secret-classified chats and phone calls are like. I suspect those would make them look even worse than they already do, and, again, I bet they would look very similar to the most secretive of CIA meetings. Maybe it's one of those "die or live long enough to see yourself become the villain" situations, or maybe Assange was always like this. I don't know. But they're very far from a journalistic organization, or a "Wiki", or a disinterested distributor of leaked information. They are highly political. Ironically, if they had more power or national backing [1], there would probably be a "WikiLeaks" trying to inform people about them. This sort of thing seems to be a phenomenon that repeats itself over and over again in history. [0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/14/cia-director-brands-wikileaks-a-hostile-intelligence-service https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/14/cia-director... [1] Some claim they work with Russian intelligence or are even backed by Russia, but I think it's more that Russian intelligence just saw them as a useful tool for a particular operation. I don't think any nation backs them.

Natsu 7y ago

Some Todd & Claire site that appeared out of nowhere tried to frame Assange for being a pedophile while he was locked in an embassy, while you're at it. You call that "Pizzagate," but none of the stuff claims anything about Clinton at all as far as I can see, it's just Alefantis' weird Instagram (and former business logos) or Podesta's odd taste in artwork and word choices, which are well-documented and archived, but certainly not proof that any of them engaged in anything like child exploitation. Additionally, many of the emails can be verified via DKIM and this has been done in an HN story from the time.

meowface 7y ago
>Some Todd & Claire site that appeared out of nowhere tried to frame Assange for being a pedophile while he was locked in an embassy, while you're at it. I mean, sure, plenty of people have lied about Assange and WikiLeaks, obviously. >You call that "Pizzagate," but none of the stuff claims anything about Clinton at all as far as I can see, it's just Alefantis' weird Instagram (and former business logos) or Podesta's odd taste in artwork and word choices, which are well-documented and archived, but certainly not proof that any of them engaged in anything like child exploitation. WikiLeaks' tweet says: >>CBS Reality Check covers Pizzagate. https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641910334089/ https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1330641... >>https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf I'm just referring to what they tweeted. Clearly this was to spread suspicion that the emails, which they leaked, might indicate Clinton is involved with pedophiles (i.e. spreading fear that Pizzagate may be real). I believe they also had one other tweet hinting at the same thing, which I remember seeing at the time, but I can't find it right now. They didn't come right out and say it explicitly, but it's an attempt at propaganda. And if you're trying to convince me that Pizzagate is fake: yes, I absolutely know it's a bullshit unsubstantiated conspiracy theory. It seems like your post should be directed at Assange, instead? I'm having trouble understanding what point you're trying to make. >Additionally, many of the emails can be verified via DKIM and this has been done in an HN story from the time. Who's disputing that? I know the emails are almost certainly legit.
- Natsu 7y ago

jakeogh 7y ago

Google image search changed drastically recently. Have you searched for (NSFW!) "podesta art" and "jimmy comet instagram"? https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/37543 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/37543

meowface 7y ago
And?
- jakeogh 7y ago
  Is that a "no, I have not reviewed Jimmy Comet's instagram"?
  - meowface 7y ago
    I have reviewed it and see no issue with it, or with any of the other Pizzagate claims. I believe Pizzagate is a complete hoax. As is "9/11 truth", which you have listed in your profile.
    - jakeogh 7y ago
      Ya totally normal tagging that baby pic #chickenlovers. Nothing odd at all about the "49th most powerful person in DC" tagging an infant #hotard. People should review the full archive, and his comments. RE distraction: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21057230 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21057230
      - meowface 7y ago
        That's two posts you've made now saying that people accusing things of being conspiracy theories or presenting conspiracy theories are themselves in fact conspiracy theories to confuse people from learning the truth. Ok. Let me guess, I'm also part of the conspiracy? 9/11 wasn't an inside job. Comet Ping Pong isn't associated with pedophilia. The guaranteed dozens of other conspiracy theories you believe (Sandy Hook, Clinton body count, FEMA death camps, probably climate change denial) are also untrue. There's a reason why belief in one conspiracy theory almost always leads to belief in most or all of them, and why others don't want to try to debate with people such as yourself.