5 ms·

Equivalent macs don't really cost extra money.

by xlnt 18y ago

rms 18y ago
Because of the extra value of the system just working?
- xlnt 18y ago
  no, they just plain don't. they all come with isights and firewire and DVD burners and such. comparisons i've seen with equivalent PCs are roughly equal. if you want lots of RAM or a larger harddrive, you probably have to buy that separately to not get overcharged, though.
  - rms 18y ago
    OK -- I spec'd a Dell XPS M150 just now to be equivalent to the $2500 Macbook Pro. I got a better than equivalent config for $1678 -- it has 4GB of RAM, would be $1578 with 2GB of RAM. It comes with a built-in 2MP webcam and bluetooth and N-wireless. It has HDMI rather than DVI out. A bluray burner is an option, as is a 1920x1080 screen. The only thing it is missing is firewire and I don't think anyone can argue that Firefire is worth $900, except people that need Firewire. The backlit keyboard is nice and generally indicative of the Apple touch, I guess, but that adds $900. At one point, it was definitely true that you couldn't get a laptop with all the extras in a Mac. But this Dell Computer really seems equivalent. Perhaps not in build quality.
    - xlnt 18y ago
      I guess it varies by when and what you compare. e.g. http://www.macworld.com/article/49403/2006/02/pricecomparison2.html http://www.macworld.com/article/49403/2006/02/pricecompariso... has the macbook pro doing well. or this http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045 http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045 has 150 more for macbook (not pro). they seem to have firewire and isight missing on the pc, and a modem missing on the mac. ------- i just did a comparison of imac vs dell all-in-one. imac = 1300 (add 1gig of ram) the dell is 1300, but i need to change stuff like including a video card, which it doesn't look like i can do (dell's customization page sucks). anyway, apple seems to win. the macbook pro isn't really for price-sensitive people, anyway. it's the imac, macbook, or maybe mini that i'd expect to price compare OK or well.
      - mattmaroon 18y ago
        The biggest problem with Apple's lineup is for people who already have a monitor they like. Your options are the mini, or a ridiculously expensive Mac Pro. There's no middle ground. Also, I don't think the mini is really price competitive even on the low end. I can get the same hardware specs for considerably cheaper elsewhere, though, of course, not with the awesome form factor/design. I really like the mini in terms of hardware, but it's not a bargain.
        markbao 18y ago
        MacBook or MacBook Pro in clamshell (closed-lid) mode.
        boredguy8 18y ago
        Why is Mac's answer always to buy more? I want my monitor, so I should buy a laptop at a premium and -then- I can use my monitor? Never you mind that, of course, the Macbook & Macbook Pro have no docking station, so that's a minimum of manual connections every time I disconnect/reconnect. If I never use the laptop as a laptop, I've way overspent. I had a similar conversation at WWDC about the 'no docking station' issue. Apple's response: buy everyone a laptop AND a desktop, and use roaming profiles. Yeah.
        tenk 18y ago
        iMac is the middle ground: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&node=home/desktop/imac http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore....
      - Retric 18y ago
        This is an old example but look at that chart: Edit: is there anyway to show a table? Apple MacBook Pro Dell Inspiron 9400 15.4-inch display 17-inch UltraSharp Wide Screen Radeon X1600(128MB) NVIDA GeForce Go 7800 (256MB) 4x SuperDrive(DVD±RW) 8x(DVD+/-RW) 10/100/1000BASE-T 10/100BASE-T Modem No Yes Built-in iSight None 2 USB ports 6 USB ports Remote Yes No S-Video Out No Yes Battery 60 WHr 80 WHr Size 5.6 pounds 8 pounds price $2,049 $2,031 Dell's system had a larger screen, better video card, a Modem, faster DVD drive, 4 USB ports, S-Video and a better Battery but Apple's system had 1000BASE-T network, iSight, and it's lighter. How on earth are these in the same catagory? PS: Today I can pick up a good 17" laptop from dell with T8300 (2.4GHz), 4GB of ram, 320GB HDD, Geforece 8600M for $1,024.00 (Google 1720 Discount and the second result is a discount code N6DT1G$64M79BW for 350$ off). The cheapest 17" Laptop from Apple starts at $2,499.00 (googled to find a $300 off MSR discount) and but that it only has 2gb of ram and a 250GB HDD. Granted it's CPU is .1GHz faster which would would add $125 to the dell or you could swap that in and downgrade the ram and HDD size. But RAM and HDD is worth more than a slightly faster CPU.
    - bprater 18y ago
      Here we go again. Idiots that are downmodding because they don't agree, while the parent has taken time to present useful information. I use a Mac, I love my Mac, but I get that some people dig Windows. Woot! It's just a damn operating system, be glad you didn't lose an arm today.
    - KirinDave 18y ago
      I used the XPS M1530 as a model because it seemed to match more closely. For $200 less the DELL had 100gb more hard drive space but no bundled software. I also think it's weird that they don't just offer Vista Ultimate, they make you pay extra. Who wants to buy a limited version of the OS? I'm sure the shop interface is so confusing that most people end up with the default option of the Home version just because it's so difficult to read their cramped store (I tried in both Safari and Firefox and it seemed like tiny cramped font and a poor explanation of the differences, maybe it looks better in IE?). So yeah, you do pay a small premium for macs. It's maybe $200-$300 before tax, which isn't much, but it's real and its there.
      - rms 18y ago
        I generally want to buy the cheapest version of the OS possible because the laptop will ultimately run Linux.

Equivalent macs don't really cost extra money.

by xlnt 18y ago

Equivalent macs don't really cost extra money.

rms 18y ago

Because of the extra value of the system just working?

xlnt 18y ago
no, they just plain don't. they all come with isights and firewire and DVD burners and such. comparisons i've seen with equivalent PCs are roughly equal. if you want lots of RAM or a larger harddrive, you probably have to buy that separately to not get overcharged, though.
- rms 18y ago
  OK -- I spec'd a Dell XPS M150 just now to be equivalent to the $2500 Macbook Pro. I got a better than equivalent config for $1678 -- it has 4GB of RAM, would be $1578 with 2GB of RAM. It comes with a built-in 2MP webcam and bluetooth and N-wireless. It has HDMI rather than DVI out. A bluray burner is an option, as is a 1920x1080 screen. The only thing it is missing is firewire and I don't think anyone can argue that Firefire is worth $900, except people that need Firewire. The backlit keyboard is nice and generally indicative of the Apple touch, I guess, but that adds $900. At one point, it was definitely true that you couldn't get a laptop with all the extras in a Mac. But this Dell Computer really seems equivalent. Perhaps not in build quality.
  - xlnt 18y ago
    I guess it varies by when and what you compare. e.g. http://www.macworld.com/article/49403/2006/02/pricecomparison2.html http://www.macworld.com/article/49403/2006/02/pricecompariso... has the macbook pro doing well. or this http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045 http://kb.wisc.edu/showroom/page.php?id=3045 has 150 more for macbook (not pro). they seem to have firewire and isight missing on the pc, and a modem missing on the mac. ------- i just did a comparison of imac vs dell all-in-one. imac = 1300 (add 1gig of ram) the dell is 1300, but i need to change stuff like including a video card, which it doesn't look like i can do (dell's customization page sucks). anyway, apple seems to win. the macbook pro isn't really for price-sensitive people, anyway. it's the imac, macbook, or maybe mini that i'd expect to price compare OK or well.
    - mattmaroon 18y ago
      The biggest problem with Apple's lineup is for people who already have a monitor they like. Your options are the mini, or a ridiculously expensive Mac Pro. There's no middle ground. Also, I don't think the mini is really price competitive even on the low end. I can get the same hardware specs for considerably cheaper elsewhere, though, of course, not with the awesome form factor/design. I really like the mini in terms of hardware, but it's not a bargain.
      - markbao 18y ago
        MacBook or MacBook Pro in clamshell (closed-lid) mode.
        boredguy8 18y ago
        Why is Mac's answer always to buy more? I want my monitor, so I should buy a laptop at a premium and -then- I can use my monitor? Never you mind that, of course, the Macbook & Macbook Pro have no docking station, so that's a minimum of manual connections every time I disconnect/reconnect. If I never use the laptop as a laptop, I've way overspent. I had a similar conversation at WWDC about the 'no docking station' issue. Apple's response: buy everyone a laptop AND a desktop, and use roaming profiles. Yeah.
      - tenk 18y ago
        iMac is the middle ground: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/wa/RSLID?nnmm=browse&node=home/desktop/imac http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore....
    - Retric 18y ago
      This is an old example but look at that chart: Edit: is there anyway to show a table? Apple MacBook Pro Dell Inspiron 9400 15.4-inch display 17-inch UltraSharp Wide Screen Radeon X1600(128MB) NVIDA GeForce Go 7800 (256MB) 4x SuperDrive(DVD±RW) 8x(DVD+/-RW) 10/100/1000BASE-T 10/100BASE-T Modem No Yes Built-in iSight None 2 USB ports 6 USB ports Remote Yes No S-Video Out No Yes Battery 60 WHr 80 WHr Size 5.6 pounds 8 pounds price $2,049 $2,031 Dell's system had a larger screen, better video card, a Modem, faster DVD drive, 4 USB ports, S-Video and a better Battery but Apple's system had 1000BASE-T network, iSight, and it's lighter. How on earth are these in the same catagory? PS: Today I can pick up a good 17" laptop from dell with T8300 (2.4GHz), 4GB of ram, 320GB HDD, Geforece 8600M for $1,024.00 (Google 1720 Discount and the second result is a discount code N6DT1G$64M79BW for 350$ off). The cheapest 17" Laptop from Apple starts at $2,499.00 (googled to find a $300 off MSR discount) and but that it only has 2gb of ram and a 250GB HDD. Granted it's CPU is .1GHz faster which would would add $125 to the dell or you could swap that in and downgrade the ram and HDD size. But RAM and HDD is worth more than a slightly faster CPU.
  - bprater 18y ago
    Here we go again. Idiots that are downmodding because they don't agree, while the parent has taken time to present useful information. I use a Mac, I love my Mac, but I get that some people dig Windows. Woot! It's just a damn operating system, be glad you didn't lose an arm today.
  - KirinDave 18y ago
    I used the XPS M1530 as a model because it seemed to match more closely. For $200 less the DELL had 100gb more hard drive space but no bundled software. I also think it's weird that they don't just offer Vista Ultimate, they make you pay extra. Who wants to buy a limited version of the OS? I'm sure the shop interface is so confusing that most people end up with the default option of the Home version just because it's so difficult to read their cramped store (I tried in both Safari and Firefox and it seemed like tiny cramped font and a poor explanation of the differences, maybe it looks better in IE?). So yeah, you do pay a small premium for macs. It's maybe $200-$300 before tax, which isn't much, but it's real and its there.
    - rms 18y ago
      I generally want to buy the cheapest version of the OS possible because the laptop will ultimately run Linux.