4 ms·

Programming languages aren't literal businesses who the hell cares about ""frontloading their value"" mein gott. There's no reason to force your startup world "

by PeCaN 7y ago

Programming languages aren't literal businesses who the hell cares about ""frontloading their value"" mein gott. There's no reason to force your startup world ""wisdom"" on programming language websites. Chapel is targeted at a pretty specific niche in the first place (and is pretty good at what it does). I don't think they're really after the general purpose programming language market and if you're in HPC you've probably already heard of it anyway.

eyegor 7y ago
That isn't startup world wisdom, it's just "how to sell x". You don't get users, or maintainers, without a sales pitch. But I actually do work with HPC on occasion, and I don't work with cray technologies. I'm very much aware of their existence, but they have never convinced me to go out and use their products. I've heard several pitches by HPE folks, and they often push towards slurm or bright systems over the cray ecosystem. Maybe I'm just not the target audience, but I routinely run 100+ node jobs using a mishmash of slurm, bash, python, etc.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  At this level, sales pitch happen with on person meetings during lunch time, not with marketing sentences on web sites.
  - jabl 7y ago
    No, not really. If(?) they want to increase adoption, they need to convince scientists to write their simulation programs in it. Realistically, that's not going to happen via HPE/Cray people having lunch meetings with individual scientists.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Yes, really, speaking from experience at CERN. I was in a meeting organised by Apple trying to sell us how great it would be to adopt OS X and X server back in 2004.
      - jabl 7y ago
        > Yes, really, speaking from experience at CERN. I can believe that, but I think CERN is not particularly representative of HPC. Mostly it's individual researchers in universities writing code (with the researcher or immediate supervisor making the decision which programming language to use) and then going to the university cluster or national supercomputing center when they need more oomph. A Cray marketroid having lunch with the director of the national supercomputing center is going to do squat all for convincing a researcher in a university somewhere to pick a particular programming language. > I was in a meeting organised by Apple trying to sell us how great it would be to adopt OS X and X server back in 2004. Yeah, and look what a smashing success Apple is in HPC.. ;)

by PeCaN 7y ago

eyegor 7y ago

That isn't startup world wisdom, it's just "how to sell x". You don't get users, or maintainers, without a sales pitch. But I actually do work with HPC on occasion, and I don't work with cray technologies. I'm very much aware of their existence, but they have never convinced me to go out and use their products. I've heard several pitches by HPE folks, and they often push towards slurm or bright systems over the cray ecosystem. Maybe I'm just not the target audience, but I routinely run 100+ node jobs using a mishmash of slurm, bash, python, etc.

pjmlp 7y ago
At this level, sales pitch happen with on person meetings during lunch time, not with marketing sentences on web sites.
- jabl 7y ago
  No, not really. If(?) they want to increase adoption, they need to convince scientists to write their simulation programs in it. Realistically, that's not going to happen via HPE/Cray people having lunch meetings with individual scientists.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Yes, really, speaking from experience at CERN. I was in a meeting organised by Apple trying to sell us how great it would be to adopt OS X and X server back in 2004.
    - jabl 7y ago
      > Yes, really, speaking from experience at CERN. I can believe that, but I think CERN is not particularly representative of HPC. Mostly it's individual researchers in universities writing code (with the researcher or immediate supervisor making the decision which programming language to use) and then going to the university cluster or national supercomputing center when they need more oomph. A Cray marketroid having lunch with the director of the national supercomputing center is going to do squat all for convincing a researcher in a university somewhere to pick a particular programming language. > I was in a meeting organised by Apple trying to sell us how great it would be to adopt OS X and X server back in 2004. Yeah, and look what a smashing success Apple is in HPC.. ;)