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I consistently see posts like this touting 'new web-app frameworks' and such, and always find a few important concepts about web apps mysteriously unmentioned:

I consistently see posts like this touting 'new web-app frameworks' and such, and always find a few important concepts about web apps mysteriously unmentioned: 1) Video. Video on the web is king. Streaming video. Live video. Video comments. Video video video. None of these javascript-based solutions have an inherent solution for incorporating video into your web app, and therefore will always need to be augmented with a video technology for web-apps that require video. 2) Cross-browser compatibility We're getting closer with javascript compatibility, but not there yet. Yes, many of these frameworks claim to hide the issue, but what about developers that want to develop components for the framework? A virtual machine that is consistent across all browsers (well, supported browsers) makes development much cleaner. 3) Flash IS Open-source. Flash may not be truly 'open-source', but rarely is there a mention that Adobe has released the specifications for the specifications for both the .swf file format and the actionscript virtual machine, and are accepting feedback on both. 4) Rapid Development Environments I admit to knowing little about how people are developing these apps in these languages, but doubt that the IDE's contain the feature-rich capabilities required for complex RIAs - things like code hinting across libraries, a walk-through debugger, visual drag & drop component interface, etc etc. --- I am in no way suggesting that these new technologies are not exciting or an improvement - I just think the hype around them (http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/14/cocoa-for-windows-flash-killer-sproutcore/ http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2008/06/14/cocoa-for-windows-f...) is somewhat unsubstantiated. They still have a long way to go. But it's great to see some new competition creeping in on the big guys - good for the consumer!

andreyf 18y ago
I think you misunderstood the article. Video is not king - it's important, but it has it's place. HN wouldn't be better if all comments were videos. In general, you seem to have missed the point of this article - it isn't comparing RIA's and JS, it's comparing 'old' JS frameworks and new ones, and the new ones are making big progress to being desktop apps. I admit to knowing little about how people are developing these apps... I don't mean this personally, but then why are you talking about this? Can we all agree to talk about things that we know about? I think that heuristic will benefit this community most.
- bporterfield 18y ago
  I do know little about the development process, but that wasn't the point of my comment. I think it's perfectly acceptable to discuss things that justify general points without having in-depth knowledge about the specifics. Nor was my point that video is necessary for every web app. These are points that, when taken as a whole, explain why I think the new frameworks are not a revolution in web app development. Web apps are dominated by Flash, and to a lesser extent, Silverlight, for a reason. The hype around these new frameworks just isn't justified. If the title was more to the effect of 'new frameworks are a good step forward in the javascript-based web-app approach' then I'd happily concede. The title says completely changing the web app industry!! The point of the article seems, to me, to be about how these new frameworks allow for simple web-app (aka RIA, more or less) development with more support from big players. My point is that this isn't as much of a game-changer as some people seem to think.

andreyf 18y ago

I think you misunderstood the article. Video is not king - it's important, but it has it's place. HN wouldn't be better if all comments were videos. In general, you seem to have missed the point of this article - it isn't comparing RIA's and JS, it's comparing 'old' JS frameworks and new ones, and the new ones are making big progress to being desktop apps. I admit to knowing little about how people are developing these apps... I don't mean this personally, but then why are you talking about this? Can we all agree to talk about things that we know about? I think that heuristic will benefit this community most.

bporterfield 18y ago
I do know little about the development process, but that wasn't the point of my comment. I think it's perfectly acceptable to discuss things that justify general points without having in-depth knowledge about the specifics. Nor was my point that video is necessary for every web app. These are points that, when taken as a whole, explain why I think the new frameworks are not a revolution in web app development. Web apps are dominated by Flash, and to a lesser extent, Silverlight, for a reason. The hype around these new frameworks just isn't justified. If the title was more to the effect of 'new frameworks are a good step forward in the javascript-based web-app approach' then I'd happily concede. The title says completely changing the web app industry!! The point of the article seems, to me, to be about how these new frameworks allow for simple web-app (aka RIA, more or less) development with more support from big players. My point is that this isn't as much of a game-changer as some people seem to think.