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I've said this time and again only to get downvotes since there is no proof or substantiation about the CCP surveillance claims. But, it is an important to keep

I've said this time and again only to get downvotes since there is no proof or substantiation about the CCP surveillance claims. But, it is an important to keep in mind. There are things that I cannot say due to our employment contract and NDA, but to say the least, we are looking into this matter. Surveillance prospects, doesn't matter where they originate - US or China or Country X - need to be discussed and examined. But apparently, saying anything against China on HN is an automatic ban for creating a flame war. We've become too soft. Obviously personal attacks and racism is not tolerable. But, I would personally (some may disagree) say that we should also criticize bad parts of culture too...that's for another day or a different forum. Can we just get past the my country your country bullshit on HN and talk about privacy implications especially from the world's largest surveillance network? It is one thing to be spied upon for advertisement tracking, an entirely another to be spied upon by a brutal authoritarian government. Fearlessly criticizing CCP or the NSA, or Israeli intelligence agency or whatever... should be one of the most important things to talk about on "Hacker" news forum. I am gonna fire off some anon emails to WSJ/NYTimes/WaPo/Guardian to create some awareness and perhaps they can dig further into Chinese influence in using Zoom. I am deeply concerned. The entire world has given up video/audio/screen/application privacy in a snap... for the data might be stored in Tianjin datacenter, needless to say whose keys are in the hands of CCP - I guarantee that but cannot provide proof. Edit: past comments that were downvoted (and flagged): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22657794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22684767 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22663295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22663295 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22705960 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22705960

warent 7y ago
I made a comment a few weeks ago criticizing the Chinese government[1]. No flame war came of it, it wasn't flagged, downvoted to oblivion, or result in an "automatic ban." I'm not sure what you're saying to cause those things to happen, but it doesn't seem to be what you think it is. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22490791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22490791
- systemvoltage 7y ago
  I am glad to hear. My perception is based on entire posts (not just comments) that were flagged due to extreme polarization of views. I can't find the thread but most comments that were anti-China were downvoted/flagged in that thread. I just have a general feeling, but I am glad to see your concerned voiced.
  - lostlogin 7y ago
    It’s possibly just perception, but a week or so ago there seemed to be a mass of China versus US bickering and trolling, then the threads were all deleted. It was really grim. Dang seemed to be moderating it then presumably had to resort to killing the lot. Whoever they are, they do a great job.
    - 40four 7y ago
      It is hard for me to imagine being in Dang’s shoes. Probably daily trying to walk the line. Making tough decisions on when to put an and to inflammatory, unproductive, even abusive threads. All that, while striving to administer as ‘light’ a touch as possible, and foster a healthy, and conducive community. It must be so stressful. I think it might drive me crazy. Doing thas job will never be perfect, but let’s all give a big ‘Thank you’ to dang (and any other admins?) who put in non-trivial work, to keep this place running smoothly!
    - systemvoltage 7y ago
      I think it is probably a perception thing or may be not. Here is my opinion. Dang is doing his job and it is tough. He is keeping this place sound and clean. Dang - nothing against you but I see some double standards for e.g. criticizing CCP has far more weight than criticizing western governments. No one gets offended for criticizing the UK Govt or the German Govt or the even the Indian Govt - but when it comes to criticizing the Chinese Govt... we can't do that, it is a flame war. If people get offended, so be it. If someone from China or of Chinese ethnicity is reading this criticism and doesn't like it...well, tough luck. The onus is on the person getting offended, not the offender. This double standard needs to end (or as I see it through my own lens). Infact, we should be criticizing the CCP even more so than democratic governments.
lsh 7y ago
I have noticed there has been a lot more downvoting here recently, really innocuous and innocent things as well. It might just be more traffic or a different type of traffic to the site while everybody is staying home. And while I agree with your sentiment regarding the CCP, the comments you link lack the meat of the one you just posted. I'm not surprised they got a kicking. > I am gonna fire off some anon emails to WSJ/NYTimes/WaPo/Guardian to create some awareness Well done.
corndoge 7y ago
>There are things that I cannot say due to our employment contract and NDA, but to say the least, we are looking into this matter. Who is "we"?
- nkozyra 7y ago
  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. In case it's not clear, I'm with you. Either you're in a position to state in what capacity you work or you're not. In the latter, don't hint at it. Just leave that out. It's useless, and more likely to make people doubt the validity of the vague claim.
  - hoistbypetard 7y ago
    I'm willing to put a finer point on that: If there is some sinister force behind your work that you can't talk about, you can't hint at it either. The organizations that are really that sinister will smash you just as hard for hinting that they're doing bad things under cover of darkness as they will for outright saying it. If you can hint at it without being smacked down hard, the org you say you fear only has aspirations of evil world domination; it's not there yet. Of course, maybe OP was scrubbed for hinting at it and we'll never know. Let it be a warning to others who would make vague hints of disclosure regarding their evil overlords.
    - systemvoltage 7y ago
      Hey OP here, I am not working on some sinister corp. I work at a biotech startup. We are just concerned about IP theft than anything else. I can't edit the comment anymore...I just wrote down whatever, sorry if that was "hinting" to something more sinister. By all means, ignore it.

warent 7y ago

I made a comment a few weeks ago criticizing the Chinese government[1]. No flame war came of it, it wasn't flagged, downvoted to oblivion, or result in an "automatic ban." I'm not sure what you're saying to cause those things to happen, but it doesn't seem to be what you think it is. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22490791 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22490791

systemvoltage 7y ago
I am glad to hear. My perception is based on entire posts (not just comments) that were flagged due to extreme polarization of views. I can't find the thread but most comments that were anti-China were downvoted/flagged in that thread. I just have a general feeling, but I am glad to see your concerned voiced.
- lostlogin 7y ago
  It’s possibly just perception, but a week or so ago there seemed to be a mass of China versus US bickering and trolling, then the threads were all deleted. It was really grim. Dang seemed to be moderating it then presumably had to resort to killing the lot. Whoever they are, they do a great job.
  - 40four 7y ago
    It is hard for me to imagine being in Dang’s shoes. Probably daily trying to walk the line. Making tough decisions on when to put an and to inflammatory, unproductive, even abusive threads. All that, while striving to administer as ‘light’ a touch as possible, and foster a healthy, and conducive community. It must be so stressful. I think it might drive me crazy. Doing thas job will never be perfect, but let’s all give a big ‘Thank you’ to dang (and any other admins?) who put in non-trivial work, to keep this place running smoothly!
  - systemvoltage 7y ago
    I think it is probably a perception thing or may be not. Here is my opinion. Dang is doing his job and it is tough. He is keeping this place sound and clean. Dang - nothing against you but I see some double standards for e.g. criticizing CCP has far more weight than criticizing western governments. No one gets offended for criticizing the UK Govt or the German Govt or the even the Indian Govt - but when it comes to criticizing the Chinese Govt... we can't do that, it is a flame war. If people get offended, so be it. If someone from China or of Chinese ethnicity is reading this criticism and doesn't like it...well, tough luck. The onus is on the person getting offended, not the offender. This double standard needs to end (or as I see it through my own lens). Infact, we should be criticizing the CCP even more so than democratic governments.

lsh 7y ago

I have noticed there has been a lot more downvoting here recently, really innocuous and innocent things as well. It might just be more traffic or a different type of traffic to the site while everybody is staying home. And while I agree with your sentiment regarding the CCP, the comments you link lack the meat of the one you just posted. I'm not surprised they got a kicking. > I am gonna fire off some anon emails to WSJ/NYTimes/WaPo/Guardian to create some awareness Well done.

corndoge 7y ago

>There are things that I cannot say due to our employment contract and NDA, but to say the least, we are looking into this matter. Who is "we"?

nkozyra 7y ago
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. In case it's not clear, I'm with you. Either you're in a position to state in what capacity you work or you're not. In the latter, don't hint at it. Just leave that out. It's useless, and more likely to make people doubt the validity of the vague claim.
- hoistbypetard 7y ago
  I'm willing to put a finer point on that: If there is some sinister force behind your work that you can't talk about, you can't hint at it either. The organizations that are really that sinister will smash you just as hard for hinting that they're doing bad things under cover of darkness as they will for outright saying it. If you can hint at it without being smacked down hard, the org you say you fear only has aspirations of evil world domination; it's not there yet. Of course, maybe OP was scrubbed for hinting at it and we'll never know. Let it be a warning to others who would make vague hints of disclosure regarding their evil overlords.
  - systemvoltage 7y ago
    Hey OP here, I am not working on some sinister corp. I work at a biotech startup. We are just concerned about IP theft than anything else. I can't edit the comment anymore...I just wrote down whatever, sorry if that was "hinting" to something more sinister. By all means, ignore it.