4 ms·

> I'm curious how many people who now say "give me privacy or give me death!" will change their tune in a hurry once they are themselves, perhaps for the first

> I'm curious how many people who now say "give me privacy or give me death!" will change their tune in a hurry once they are themselves, perhaps for the first time in their lives, in real danger of dying. The weak ones we shouldn't be prioritizing over the strong. Harboring weakness is just asking to be taken advantage of. It may seem empathetic at first, but all you end up doing is undermining the individuals growth and selling out the security of future generations. If you're an adult, you need to come to terms with death, and recognize that extending your life isn't worth stealing from future generations. They deserve more freedom than we've had. Not less.

throwanem 7y ago
It's a mercy you won't be held to this when you get sick, and find it's somewhat easier to talk in the abstract about coming to terms with death than to face the imminent possibility. edit: Well, you won't be held to it assuming we haven't reached a need for sufficiently severe triage, I suppose. Otherwise, you might get a chance to quite literally put your life on the line for the principle you've just espoused! I wish you joy of it.
- Proziam 7y ago
  All the soldiers, firefighters, and doctors/nurses/EMTs (and many more) are putting their lives on the line for what they believe in. Some of them believe in the constitution and some of them simply desire to help their fellow man. Not everyone is so weak that they sell out others for their own benefit, and assuming the worst of others only serves to expose your values, or lack thereof. > I wish you joy of it. That was straight-up evil. Whatever empathy and respect you may have had just went out the window. I'm almost in disbelief that you would edit your post just to literally wish someone the "joy" of having a chance to die.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    "The weak should be winnowed from the strong, that the strong may prosper without being held back" is an idea that attracts your sympathy, though?
    - Proziam 7y ago
      You seem to love misrepresenting people's views, or perhaps you just really don't comprehend them. No, I don't think the unfortunate should be harmed or taken advantage of. I also don't think anyone should be forced to surrender their rights to governments, period. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to prosper in this world. That is impossible so long as there's some 'higher power' manipulating the system to the advantage of one group or another. I hate war. I hate when the police enforce evil policies and eviscerate the lives of innocent people. I hate when governments play god and overthrow other governments for the financial gain of a select few. You know what else I hate? When governments cover up the truth and cause massive pain and suffering. The Chinese government spies on their people, they used that system to silence the story about this virus which is now infecting people around the globe. Giving up your right to privacy, speech, and defense is [1]literally exactly how this happened in the first place. If the truth had gotten out sooner, it could have been contained. Instead, the world economy is grinding to a halt and people are dying. All thanks to a government spying on its people's cell phone [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/whistleblower-chinese-doctor-dies-from-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/whistleblower-...
      - throwanem 7y ago
        Meanwhile, contact tracing, in places like South Korea, Hong Kong, and Singapore, appears to have made a major difference in the rate of transmission. In those countries, people have to some greater or lesser extent traded privacy for security, and - so far, at least - it appears to be working. Is that a choice they all individually made? Of course not. There are penalties for noncompliance, same as for laws here in the US, whether you agree with them or not. Did that also, though, save a lot of lives? Ask again in a year, I suppose; it's too soon to tell. But by the same token, it's too soon to call that a failure, at least if lives saved is a figure of merit. I think it should be. I'm not averse in concept to the sacrifice of life in defense of principle, but I am very much averse to the sacrifice of some life in defense of others' principle. You spoke earlier of the horrors of dictatorship, of totalitarianism, and the like? As far as I'm concerned, every one of them starts right here. If you want to die on behalf of whatever principles you hold dear, you're welcome. That's your life to spend. It is the only life that's yours to spend.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. You've done it repeatedly in this thread. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong or bad another comment is, or you feel it is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- buzzkillington 7y ago
  >It's a mercy you won't be held to this when you get sick, and find it's somewhat easier to talk in the abstract about coming to terms with death than to face the imminent possibility. It's unfortunate that you're a coward. Death is not something to fear, and with a stock of strong pain killers neither is dying.
  - throwanem 7y ago
    Sure, assuming you have the good fortune to choose your manner of dying. I wouldn't feel very comfortable making that kind of assumption. But I concede it's easier to sling accusations of cowardice than to think seriously about drowning slowly and helplessly in the fluids of your own destroyed lungs. Congratulations on having gotten over this pandemic virus. Good luck with the next one!
    - buzzkillington 7y ago
      In any sane world euthanasia would be legal and everyone could chose a painless death. But of course we can't have that freedom.
  - jshevek 7y ago
    Reflecting on how my relationship with death has varied with my life experiences, I don't think you know enough about his particular experience to call him a coward.
  - dang 7y ago
    Personal attacks will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: Please don't post unsubstantive or flamebait comments here generally. You've done it repeatedly, and we've already asked you not to.
- dang 7y ago
  Please do not take HN threads further into flamewar. We ban accounts that keep doing that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

throwanem 7y ago

It's a mercy you won't be held to this when you get sick, and find it's somewhat easier to talk in the abstract about coming to terms with death than to face the imminent possibility. edit: Well, you won't be held to it assuming we haven't reached a need for sufficiently severe triage, I suppose. Otherwise, you might get a chance to quite literally put your life on the line for the principle you've just espoused! I wish you joy of it.

Proziam 7y ago
All the soldiers, firefighters, and doctors/nurses/EMTs (and many more) are putting their lives on the line for what they believe in. Some of them believe in the constitution and some of them simply desire to help their fellow man. Not everyone is so weak that they sell out others for their own benefit, and assuming the worst of others only serves to expose your values, or lack thereof. > I wish you joy of it. That was straight-up evil. Whatever empathy and respect you may have had just went out the window. I'm almost in disbelief that you would edit your post just to literally wish someone the "joy" of having a chance to die.
- throwanem 7y ago
  "The weak should be winnowed from the strong, that the strong may prosper without being held back" is an idea that attracts your sympathy, though?
  - Proziam 7y ago
    You seem to love misrepresenting people's views, or perhaps you just really don't comprehend them. No, I don't think the unfortunate should be harmed or taken advantage of. I also don't think anyone should be forced to surrender their rights to governments, period. Everyone should have an equal opportunity to prosper in this world. That is impossible so long as there's some 'higher power' manipulating the system to the advantage of one group or another. I hate war. I hate when the police enforce evil policies and eviscerate the lives of innocent people. I hate when governments play god and overthrow other governments for the financial gain of a select few. You know what else I hate? When governments cover up the truth and cause massive pain and suffering. The Chinese government spies on their people, they used that system to silence the story about this virus which is now infecting people around the globe. Giving up your right to privacy, speech, and defense is [1]literally exactly how this happened in the first place. If the truth had gotten out sooner, it could have been contained. Instead, the world economy is grinding to a halt and people are dying. All thanks to a government spying on its people's cell phone [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/whistleblower-chinese-doctor-dies-from-coronavirus https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/06/whistleblower-...
    - throwanem 7y ago
      Meanwhile, contact tracing, in places like South Korea, Hong Kong, and Singapore, appears to have made a major difference in the rate of transmission. In those countries, people have to some greater or lesser extent traded privacy for security, and - so far, at least - it appears to be working. Is that a choice they all individually made? Of course not. There are penalties for noncompliance, same as for laws here in the US, whether you agree with them or not. Did that also, though, save a lot of lives? Ask again in a year, I suppose; it's too soon to tell. But by the same token, it's too soon to call that a failure, at least if lives saved is a figure of merit. I think it should be. I'm not averse in concept to the sacrifice of life in defense of principle, but I am very much averse to the sacrifice of some life in defense of others' principle. You spoke earlier of the horrors of dictatorship, of totalitarianism, and the like? As far as I'm concerned, every one of them starts right here. If you want to die on behalf of whatever principles you hold dear, you're welcome. That's your life to spend. It is the only life that's yours to spend.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't post in the flamewar style to HN. You've done it repeatedly in this thread. That's not ok, regardless of how wrong or bad another comment is, or you feel it is. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
buzzkillington 7y ago
>It's a mercy you won't be held to this when you get sick, and find it's somewhat easier to talk in the abstract about coming to terms with death than to face the imminent possibility. It's unfortunate that you're a coward. Death is not something to fear, and with a stock of strong pain killers neither is dying.
- throwanem 7y ago
  Sure, assuming you have the good fortune to choose your manner of dying. I wouldn't feel very comfortable making that kind of assumption. But I concede it's easier to sling accusations of cowardice than to think seriously about drowning slowly and helplessly in the fluids of your own destroyed lungs. Congratulations on having gotten over this pandemic virus. Good luck with the next one!
  - buzzkillington 7y ago
    In any sane world euthanasia would be legal and everyone could chose a painless death. But of course we can't have that freedom.
- jshevek 7y ago
  Reflecting on how my relationship with death has varied with my life experiences, I don't think you know enough about his particular experience to call him a coward.
- dang 7y ago
  Personal attacks will get you banned here. No more of this please. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: Please don't post unsubstantive or flamebait comments here generally. You've done it repeatedly, and we've already asked you not to.
dang 7y ago
Please do not take HN threads further into flamewar. We ban accounts that keep doing that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html