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What if humans are special, and help hold ecosystems together? We know of some, like the great plains and the redwood forests, where lack of human management l
by yters 7y ago
What if humans are special, and help hold ecosystems together? We know of some, like the great plains and the redwood forests, where lack of human management leads to ecosystem breakdown.
- _jal 7y agoThat doesn't make humans special. Ecosystems are defined by the interrelations of many actors. The fact that humans are huge, impactful actors matters, but doesn't make them unique. Also recall that humans, as an invasive species, can be adept at destroying ecosystems. There's a big, interlocking series of forests in South America, for instance, that gets a lot of attention, but that's hardly the only example.
- yters 7y agoIf humans hold our ecosystems together, then elimination of humans will also result in the rest of animals dying off.
- _jal 7y agoAnd if another species dies off, it can also destabilize the ecosystem. Where is the special role of humans coming from?
- yters 7y agoWe are able to recognize, anticipate and avert ecological collapse. No other animal can do this. The rest of the animal kingdom can only adapt, at best.
- _jal 7y agoI think you both overstate human understanding of ecological systems and desire to maintain them. Humans mostly tend to radically reshape local ecosystems for their own ends, at times collapsing them. Aside from some very local remediation successes here and there (which are more repair jobs than preservation), I'm unaware of any evidence that humans have "recognized, anticipated and averted" any of note. Do you have any?
- yters 7y agoFarming and agriculture is ecological creation on a grand scale, and responsible for much of human flourishing, along with the animals and plants we cultivate.
- _jal 7y agoAgriculture is an activity, not an ecosystem. Humans are but one element of the ecosystems in which they exist, and their flourishing is relevant only insofar as it preserves systemic viability. Farms are inherently unstable - the 'system' is missing. From an ecological perspective, they're no more an ecosystem than you'd get if you released a bunch of random animals in your house. You'd have a new 'system' that lasts until they die.
- yters 7y agoHence human's ability to avert collapse on a continyal basis. No other creature farms like humans.
- _jal 7y agoYou're not discussing ecosystems.
- yters 7y agoThat's just a semantic argument. Humans have an ability no other organism has to create and maintain biological systems. It is the only thing that could possibly save an ecosystem from collapse. If humans are eliminated, then so is this ability.
- r00fus 7y agoSo are insects & plankton - if you remove them, a lot of ecosystems would fall apart.
- yters 7y agoInsects and plankton cannot purposefully prevent collapse. Only humans can do this.