4 ms·

We’ve gone from under $9 trillion about 15 years ago, to I’m guessing, $25 trillion in national debt. After this one is over, perhaps we can add a few billion

We’ve gone from under $9 trillion about 15 years ago, to I’m guessing, $25 trillion in national debt. After this one is over, perhaps we can add a few billion for research into diseases like Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, pancreatic cancer, etc ... ...and the millions that Bill Gates asked for pandemic research 5 years ago.

snazz 7y ago
Currently $23.6T: https://www.usdebtclock.org/ https://www.usdebtclock.org/
- melling 7y ago
  Includes the $2 trillion package about to be signed?
  - snazz 7y ago
    Presumably not.
  - oDot 7y ago
    There's a different clock on there for unfunded liabilities at $132T. If that package is unfunded, it's not even a dent to the overall.
    - wahern 7y ago
      Unfunded liabilities are future liabilities projected out 75 years. Much of it will never come to pass. For example, the part that constitutes Social Security can and almost certainly will be mostly wiped away in an instant by increasing the retirement age by a few years and increasing the payroll tax cut-off. And I'll bet you a beer that the $132 trillion figure is calculated using year-of-expenditure, not constant dollars, which means the predictions are literally inflated. I tried to confirm but couldn't find the original sources and methodology. AFAIU year-of-expenditure is typical and best practice for long-term budgeting, but laypeople invariably compare it to constant dollar costs, which makes such figures seem larger than they really are, particularly when they include up to 75 years of monetary inflation. For example, California High-speed Rail is always quoted in year-of-expenditure. Much of the difference in the original ~$30 billion figure to the current seemingly insane ~$100 billion figure is because the construction timeline was stretched out by another decade or more since the original proposal. The longer construction takes, the more inflation figures into projections, the greater the figures, the less public support there is, the more construction is delayed by scared politicians, etc. It's a horrible cycle.
      - oDot 7y ago
        Interesting, thank you for that
      - arcticbull 7y ago
        I actually had no idea most long-term projects were presented in year-of-expenditure dollars. As someone who pays attention to this stuff, if I didn't realize, I'd wager nobody voting realizes this either.
      - omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
        Exactly. It's nothing new either. The retirement age was last increased in 1983. As people live longer we need to adjust payments into the trust, retirement age, and payments from the trust proportionally. https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/background.html https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/background.html
        bsanr2 7y ago
        This is going to be an interesting conundrum, however, when one considers that both Gen X and Millennials are projected to live shorter lives than the Baby Boomers.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
$9 trillion in 2005 dollars, right? So ~$12 trillion in 2020 dollars? Still pretty crazy to see it double in less than two decades.
sslayer 7y ago
Woah, slow down there copper-top, workers are disposable too.
streptomycin 7y ago
More is good, but the NIH alone is already spending $2.8 billion/year on Alzheimer's research https://www.alz.org/get-involved-now/advocate/research-funding https://www.alz.org/get-involved-now/advocate/research-fundi... and that's not including spending from other government agencies (both US and international), charities, or pharma companies.
- mark-r 7y ago
  Most Alzheimer's research money has gone into the Amyloid hypothesis, which hasn't resulted in any fruitful results.
  - shartshooter 7y ago
    Disease research isn’t about avoiding mistakes, it’s about taking chances and exploring avenues that look promising. Failure is essential to learning.
    - labster 7y ago
      Tell that to the grant boards and agencies who spent over a decade refusing to fund any Alzheimer’s research unrelated to the amyloid hypothesis.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      Changing tack in response to failure is the essence of learning. Doing the same thing again and again is the opposite of learning.
anonsubmit2671 7y ago
$23.6 trillion plus whatever else this situation will cost. I would guess $5-7 trillion more, at a minimum, because it will cost $1.2 trillion a month for shelter-in-place UBI.. and then however much of many trillions in loans go into default or are forgiven. https://usdebtclock.org https://usdebtclock.org
- paulmd 7y ago
  No, the direct UBI payments are $300b. Some additional spending on unemployment insurance, SNAP, and some other programs that are going to be hit harder with millions of people out of work overnight. But overall, there is actually more spending directed towards businesses here than towards individuals ($775b for business vs $560b for UBI and unemployment). https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png It's pretty funny to see Democrats patting themselves on the back about what a good deal they got for working americans. This is pretty much a handout to big business, and they wrote you a token check to get it shoved through.
  - kanyethegreat 7y ago
    That's for the first UBI payment though, right? I was under the impression there would be more, no?
    - paulmd 7y ago
      No, what passed was a one-time payment. Due to the Senate recess it was pass their bill, unmodified, or pass nothing at all. There is some general talk in the house (in particular on the left) that this isn't really enough to handle what is shaping up to be a 4-6 month crisis at absolute minimum and we should do additional payments in the future but that's not what passed, and it's unclear whether the Senate has any willingness to pass anything further. The Senate took off from DC for a month so nothing will be done before they get back. On this or any other coronavirus-related legislation.
_red 7y ago
>...and the millions that Bill Gates asked for pandemic research 5 years ago. I for one really regret I haven't been chipped yet from Bills ID2020 program. I wish it could be funded. The only people who could be against it are the anti-science nutters. I'm sure the EULA of the chip program will include both a robust privacy policy and a CoC.
- jtbayly 7y ago
  Is this sarcasm?

snazz 7y ago

Currently $23.6T: https://www.usdebtclock.org/ https://www.usdebtclock.org/

melling 7y ago
Includes the $2 trillion package about to be signed?
- snazz 7y ago
  Presumably not.
- oDot 7y ago
  There's a different clock on there for unfunded liabilities at $132T. If that package is unfunded, it's not even a dent to the overall.
  - wahern 7y ago
    Unfunded liabilities are future liabilities projected out 75 years. Much of it will never come to pass. For example, the part that constitutes Social Security can and almost certainly will be mostly wiped away in an instant by increasing the retirement age by a few years and increasing the payroll tax cut-off. And I'll bet you a beer that the $132 trillion figure is calculated using year-of-expenditure, not constant dollars, which means the predictions are literally inflated. I tried to confirm but couldn't find the original sources and methodology. AFAIU year-of-expenditure is typical and best practice for long-term budgeting, but laypeople invariably compare it to constant dollar costs, which makes such figures seem larger than they really are, particularly when they include up to 75 years of monetary inflation. For example, California High-speed Rail is always quoted in year-of-expenditure. Much of the difference in the original ~$30 billion figure to the current seemingly insane ~$100 billion figure is because the construction timeline was stretched out by another decade or more since the original proposal. The longer construction takes, the more inflation figures into projections, the greater the figures, the less public support there is, the more construction is delayed by scared politicians, etc. It's a horrible cycle.
    - oDot 7y ago
      Interesting, thank you for that
    - arcticbull 7y ago
      I actually had no idea most long-term projects were presented in year-of-expenditure dollars. As someone who pays attention to this stuff, if I didn't realize, I'd wager nobody voting realizes this either.
    - omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago
      Exactly. It's nothing new either. The retirement age was last increased in 1983. As people live longer we need to adjust payments into the trust, retirement age, and payments from the trust proportionally. https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/background.html https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/background.html
      - bsanr2 7y ago
        This is going to be an interesting conundrum, however, when one considers that both Gen X and Millennials are projected to live shorter lives than the Baby Boomers.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]

omgwtfbyobbq 7y ago

$9 trillion in 2005 dollars, right? So ~$12 trillion in 2020 dollars? Still pretty crazy to see it double in less than two decades.

sslayer 7y ago

Woah, slow down there copper-top, workers are disposable too.

streptomycin 7y ago

More is good, but the NIH alone is already spending $2.8 billion/year on Alzheimer's research https://www.alz.org/get-involved-now/advocate/research-funding https://www.alz.org/get-involved-now/advocate/research-fundi... and that's not including spending from other government agencies (both US and international), charities, or pharma companies.

mark-r 7y ago
Most Alzheimer's research money has gone into the Amyloid hypothesis, which hasn't resulted in any fruitful results.
- shartshooter 7y ago
  Disease research isn’t about avoiding mistakes, it’s about taking chances and exploring avenues that look promising. Failure is essential to learning.
  - labster 7y ago
    Tell that to the grant boards and agencies who spent over a decade refusing to fund any Alzheimer’s research unrelated to the amyloid hypothesis.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Changing tack in response to failure is the essence of learning. Doing the same thing again and again is the opposite of learning.

anonsubmit2671 7y ago

$23.6 trillion plus whatever else this situation will cost. I would guess $5-7 trillion more, at a minimum, because it will cost $1.2 trillion a month for shelter-in-place UBI.. and then however much of many trillions in loans go into default or are forgiven. https://usdebtclock.org https://usdebtclock.org

paulmd 7y ago
No, the direct UBI payments are $300b. Some additional spending on unemployment insurance, SNAP, and some other programs that are going to be hit harder with millions of people out of work overnight. But overall, there is actually more spending directed towards businesses here than towards individuals ($775b for business vs $560b for UBI and unemployment). https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png https://i.redd.it/7ji35fxrq4p41.png It's pretty funny to see Democrats patting themselves on the back about what a good deal they got for working americans. This is pretty much a handout to big business, and they wrote you a token check to get it shoved through.
- kanyethegreat 7y ago
  That's for the first UBI payment though, right? I was under the impression there would be more, no?
  - paulmd 7y ago
    No, what passed was a one-time payment. Due to the Senate recess it was pass their bill, unmodified, or pass nothing at all. There is some general talk in the house (in particular on the left) that this isn't really enough to handle what is shaping up to be a 4-6 month crisis at absolute minimum and we should do additional payments in the future but that's not what passed, and it's unclear whether the Senate has any willingness to pass anything further. The Senate took off from DC for a month so nothing will be done before they get back. On this or any other coronavirus-related legislation.

_red 7y ago

>...and the millions that Bill Gates asked for pandemic research 5 years ago. I for one really regret I haven't been chipped yet from Bills ID2020 program. I wish it could be funded. The only people who could be against it are the anti-science nutters. I'm sure the EULA of the chip program will include both a robust privacy policy and a CoC.

jtbayly 7y ago
Is this sarcasm?