5 ms·

Why not just give an actual IQ test?

by amznthrowaway5 7y ago

jedmeyers 7y ago
Not allowed by law.
- dominotw 7y ago
  > IQ tests (for interviewing) are typically spatial comparisons, some math, logic puzzles, reading comprehension, and pattern recognition I definitely got these in tech interviews. Thoughtworks gave me one last year.
  - jedmeyers 7y ago
    It might have been a de facto IQ test, but they should have disguised it carefully.
bitwize 7y ago
That opens you up to liability for race-based discrimination. The accepted wisdom is that IQ tests are inherently racist and favor white evaluees over black and brown ones.
- amznthrowaway5 7y ago
  Wouldn't coding interviews show the same bias?
  - lmkg 7y ago
    The difference is, the Supreme Court has already made a ruling on IQ tests.
    - vbezhenar 7y ago
      Isn't this ruling inherently racist?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- bmn__ 7y ago
  That's formulated the wrong way. An IQ test per se cannot be racist because it is not a human being with intentional behaviour. This means blame must fall on the test designer or test conductor to introduce a racist biasing. In places where accurate results matter, the best available methods of psychometrics are used: http://enwp.org/Progressive_Matrices http://enwp.org/Progressive_Matrices These are free of bias: culture, language, reading/writing ability does not matter. If these are used and assuming the test conductor did not screw up, and if white evaluees score better than black and brown ones, then it is an objective measurement of reality, not racism. Thus I think the "accepted wisdom" is wrong. If you know of any examples of racism through IQ tests, indicating intention, I'd be glad to hear of them.
  - pjscott 7y ago
    I agree, but it's not obvious that courts would agree, and lawsuits are expensive even if you win. The legal liability worries are still there, alas.
- vbezhenar 7y ago
  What about other countries?
- pravda 7y ago
  >The accepted wisdom is that IQ tests are inherently racist and favor white evaluees over black and brown ones. Huh? Where did you hear that? The reality is that Asians score the highest on IQ tests, whites score somewhat below, blacks score lowest. The accepted wisdom is that Asians have the highest IQs, followed by whites, followed by blacks. Well, that's not entirely true. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest IQs, but their IQ-advantage is in the verbal area, which is why when you see lists of the highest-paid lawyers a disproportionate number are Tribe members. Keep in mind that these are averages. There are plenty of dumb Asians and there are plenty of smart blacks! You can't apply group statistics to individuals.

Why not just give an actual IQ test?

jedmeyers 7y ago

Not allowed by law.

dominotw 7y ago
> IQ tests (for interviewing) are typically spatial comparisons, some math, logic puzzles, reading comprehension, and pattern recognition I definitely got these in tech interviews. Thoughtworks gave me one last year.
- jedmeyers 7y ago
  It might have been a de facto IQ test, but they should have disguised it carefully.

bitwize 7y ago

That opens you up to liability for race-based discrimination. The accepted wisdom is that IQ tests are inherently racist and favor white evaluees over black and brown ones.

amznthrowaway5 7y ago
Wouldn't coding interviews show the same bias?
- lmkg 7y ago
  The difference is, the Supreme Court has already made a ruling on IQ tests.
  - vbezhenar 7y ago
    Isn't this ruling inherently racist?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
bmn__ 7y ago
That's formulated the wrong way. An IQ test per se cannot be racist because it is not a human being with intentional behaviour. This means blame must fall on the test designer or test conductor to introduce a racist biasing. In places where accurate results matter, the best available methods of psychometrics are used: http://enwp.org/Progressive_Matrices http://enwp.org/Progressive_Matrices These are free of bias: culture, language, reading/writing ability does not matter. If these are used and assuming the test conductor did not screw up, and if white evaluees score better than black and brown ones, then it is an objective measurement of reality, not racism. Thus I think the "accepted wisdom" is wrong. If you know of any examples of racism through IQ tests, indicating intention, I'd be glad to hear of them.
- pjscott 7y ago
  I agree, but it's not obvious that courts would agree, and lawsuits are expensive even if you win. The legal liability worries are still there, alas.
vbezhenar 7y ago
What about other countries?
pravda 7y ago
>The accepted wisdom is that IQ tests are inherently racist and favor white evaluees over black and brown ones. Huh? Where did you hear that? The reality is that Asians score the highest on IQ tests, whites score somewhat below, blacks score lowest. The accepted wisdom is that Asians have the highest IQs, followed by whites, followed by blacks. Well, that's not entirely true. Ashkenazi Jews have the highest IQs, but their IQ-advantage is in the verbal area, which is why when you see lists of the highest-paid lawyers a disproportionate number are Tribe members. Keep in mind that these are averages. There are plenty of dumb Asians and there are plenty of smart blacks! You can't apply group statistics to individuals.