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What? Is this really controversial? Sometimes you need a UI library, sometimes you need really quick interactivity to toggle a menu. I use alpine.js on my marke

What? Is this really controversial? Sometimes you need a UI library, sometimes you need really quick interactivity to toggle a menu. I use alpine.js on my marketing pages, and I use vue/svelte within sections of my app.

dceddia 7y ago
Using them on separate pages is fine, but using React and jQuery on the same page is usually not a good idea since React needs to “own” its slice of the DOM and changing things in there with jQuery could cause weird bugs. But anyway, it’s impossible to tell from just the package.json file whether React and jQuery are being used on the same page, or just both used in different parts of the app.
- KajMagnus 7y ago
  Now jQuery is gone (see my other reply just nearby, in this same comments tree). Actually, when I was starting with React, then for a while Talkyard did use both jQuery and React on the same pages (not a good idea, I agree). I was careful to avoid the bugs you have in mind from happening, so that wasn't a problem, however, loading & using both libs wasn't good for performance — just parsing and executing the 30 kb min.js.gz jQuery bundle took maybe half a second? a second? on mobile phones, back at the time (2.5 years ago).
  - alharith 7y ago
    I was a very early adopter of React at my company (fall 2013) and IIRC, using jQuery with React was still in the docs. edit: and it still is today, just a tad updated: https://reactjs.org/docs/integrating-with-other-libraries.html https://reactjs.org/docs/integrating-with-other-libraries.ht...
    - KajMagnus 7y ago
      Same here :- ) Just a bit later, fall / winter 2014. Thanks for the link. I think I saw that page, or sth similar, back then. ... Now I found an old question I posted at StackOverflow about jQuery + React: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27646347/is-it-okay-to-do-all-these-jquery-things-to-a-react-js-dom-tree https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27646347/is-it-okay-to-d...
sandGorgon 7y ago
the problem is that react and jquery both need ownership of the DOM. if you have code that mixes them, it is recipe for disaster. subtle hidden bugs start creeping up.
- KajMagnus 7y ago
  And performance, see my other comments nearby (jQuery now gone).
KajMagnus 7y ago
Alpine.js looks nice, didn't know about it. Light-weigth React/Vue/etc for just 7 kb :- ) I use Bliss.js, https://github.com/LeaVerou/bliss https://github.com/LeaVerou/bliss for some parts of Talkyard nowadays, where React would be too much. Bliss.js is sth like 3 kb min.js.gz. (But jQuery itself is gone nowadays, it was too large.)
- sandGorgon 7y ago
  Last commit to bliss seems to be April (and then a few automatic package update commits) I would seriously consider dropping this dependency. React's performance is fairly acceptable.
  - KajMagnus 7y ago
    Actually to me, Bliss not getting new features or changes (just maintenance by Lea Verou), is a good thing. Upgrading libs and breaking changes, takes time — stability is nice :- ) I agree that React is fast enough. React is pretty large though, takes a bit time to parse and compile the code, on mobile. And none of its features are needed in this case, and could instead cause conflicts with other libs. What I'd do, if anything, is a custom build / fork of Bliss that removes most of the code, so 3 kb becomes Bliss maybe just 1 kb "Mini-Bliss".

dceddia 7y ago

Using them on separate pages is fine, but using React and jQuery on the same page is usually not a good idea since React needs to “own” its slice of the DOM and changing things in there with jQuery could cause weird bugs. But anyway, it’s impossible to tell from just the package.json file whether React and jQuery are being used on the same page, or just both used in different parts of the app.

KajMagnus 7y ago
Now jQuery is gone (see my other reply just nearby, in this same comments tree). Actually, when I was starting with React, then for a while Talkyard did use both jQuery and React on the same pages (not a good idea, I agree). I was careful to avoid the bugs you have in mind from happening, so that wasn't a problem, however, loading & using both libs wasn't good for performance — just parsing and executing the 30 kb min.js.gz jQuery bundle took maybe half a second? a second? on mobile phones, back at the time (2.5 years ago).
- alharith 7y ago
  I was a very early adopter of React at my company (fall 2013) and IIRC, using jQuery with React was still in the docs. edit: and it still is today, just a tad updated: https://reactjs.org/docs/integrating-with-other-libraries.html https://reactjs.org/docs/integrating-with-other-libraries.ht...
  - KajMagnus 7y ago
    Same here :- ) Just a bit later, fall / winter 2014. Thanks for the link. I think I saw that page, or sth similar, back then. ... Now I found an old question I posted at StackOverflow about jQuery + React: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27646347/is-it-okay-to-do-all-these-jquery-things-to-a-react-js-dom-tree https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27646347/is-it-okay-to-d...

sandGorgon 7y ago

the problem is that react and jquery both need ownership of the DOM. if you have code that mixes them, it is recipe for disaster. subtle hidden bugs start creeping up.

KajMagnus 7y ago
And performance, see my other comments nearby (jQuery now gone).

KajMagnus 7y ago

Alpine.js looks nice, didn't know about it. Light-weigth React/Vue/etc for just 7 kb :- ) I use Bliss.js, https://github.com/LeaVerou/bliss https://github.com/LeaVerou/bliss for some parts of Talkyard nowadays, where React would be too much. Bliss.js is sth like 3 kb min.js.gz. (But jQuery itself is gone nowadays, it was too large.)

sandGorgon 7y ago
Last commit to bliss seems to be April (and then a few automatic package update commits) I would seriously consider dropping this dependency. React's performance is fairly acceptable.
- KajMagnus 7y ago
  Actually to me, Bliss not getting new features or changes (just maintenance by Lea Verou), is a good thing. Upgrading libs and breaking changes, takes time — stability is nice :- ) I agree that React is fast enough. React is pretty large though, takes a bit time to parse and compile the code, on mobile. And none of its features are needed in this case, and could instead cause conflicts with other libs. What I'd do, if anything, is a custom build / fork of Bliss that removes most of the code, so 3 kb becomes Bliss maybe just 1 kb "Mini-Bliss".