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Here's my thoughts on what a healthy community is: People are basically dysfunctional, though to varying degrees, and so any congregation of people in the flesh

by abnry 7y ago

Here's my thoughts on what a healthy community is: People are basically dysfunctional, though to varying degrees, and so any congregation of people in the flesh or online will also be dysfunctional, to varying degrees. So there is no way to assign the label "healthy" to an online community, only a way to compare it as more or less healthy. For any social media site, there are two things to separate out: The aggregation aspect (information distribution) and the community conversation. A site that disseminates low quality articles, slanted articles, or a limited varied of articles is not as healthy in terms of the aggregation aspect as one that is rich in variety and quality. For my own opinion, HN has made me aware of a lot of great resources, so I think it is very "healthy" in this regard. Typically the political posts are significantly less quality. In terms of community engagement, one thing I personally pay attention to is how often my buttons are being pushed. Sometimes that's due to a flaw in my own biases and opinions where I can't take any alternative views. However, usually conflict of opinion that is highly emotional, imprecise in statement, and poorly thought out are the types of comments that work me up. Generally, on HN, I don't get worked up on anything except for the political posts. Flame wars about writing documentation in markdown or not are actually kind of entertaining to me. Those kinds of posts don't push my buttons, and I suspect most other people's, to the same degree.

tracker1 7y ago
I think political discussion is one of the few areas where things get really off-balance in terms of merit of an idea vs moderation in general. Just guessing that the users are likely around 60% left leaning with about half of those hard left, less liberal.. and the other 40% split with libertarian-right and center-right republican. Conservative opinions will usually see a -1 to -2 down out of course... likewise the opposite for left-leaning opinions. I can only speculate as to total votes in either direction though. Being classically liberal/libertarian, I can only speak to my own opinions on this as where I stand is often in contrast to established left/right tribes. -- edit I've seen this comment go up/down several times already, kind of making the point.
- kbenson 7y ago
  HN is the first place I realized the political spectrum is less of a line with end points (or more commonly represented as going infinitely in each direction), and more of a circle. Go far enough towards one extreme, and you start approaching the other side. I didn't come to thing because people here are horrible, but because the community allowed different people enough of voice that their could explain their views usefully right along side people with very different views. I'll note this idea itself is a poor approximation for what is really going on, which is that there are multiple aspects being mapped and they don't all match the traditional political spectrum line. That said, it's still a useful way to think. E.g. there are are two paths to fascism, but people usually only see the one their opponents are on, not their own.
  - dublinben 7y ago
    This is known as Horseshoe Theory, and it's a pretty lame model of political ideology.¹ In reality, most people can't be placed on a single dimension that accurately captures their political identity. Most political scientists prefer at least a biaxial spectrum, comprising of the left/right axis and another major axis like libertarian/authoritarian.² 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
    - kbenson 7y ago
      > it's a pretty lame model of political ideology. Well, I did say it's a poor approximation. The usefulness I alluded to is to understand that all these approximations are flawed in various ways, firstly because they are approximations, but more-so because they are all hopeless simplistic representations for what is being modeled. Biaxial is better than a single axis, but that doesn't make it better. The thing the horseshoe theory represents is something that the biaxial representation doesn't represent at all, a similarity of some aspects of though in the common extremes we see in reality. There's often a difference between diagrams that allow everything to be represented clearly and diagrams that help steer you into associations that are useful. Both have their place.
sankalpb 7y ago
Thanks, I appreciate a distinction that you're making between 'aggregation' and 'community conversation/engagement'. Have you been able to notice whether those 'button-pushing' types of comments ('highly emotional', 'imprecise in statement', 'poorly thought') are ones that push the buttons of the rest of the community as well? Do you consider yourself an outlier in this regard (having this sense for 'button-pushing' posts)?

by abnry 7y ago

tracker1 7y ago

I think political discussion is one of the few areas where things get really off-balance in terms of merit of an idea vs moderation in general. Just guessing that the users are likely around 60% left leaning with about half of those hard left, less liberal.. and the other 40% split with libertarian-right and center-right republican. Conservative opinions will usually see a -1 to -2 down out of course... likewise the opposite for left-leaning opinions. I can only speculate as to total votes in either direction though. Being classically liberal/libertarian, I can only speak to my own opinions on this as where I stand is often in contrast to established left/right tribes. -- edit I've seen this comment go up/down several times already, kind of making the point.

kbenson 7y ago
HN is the first place I realized the political spectrum is less of a line with end points (or more commonly represented as going infinitely in each direction), and more of a circle. Go far enough towards one extreme, and you start approaching the other side. I didn't come to thing because people here are horrible, but because the community allowed different people enough of voice that their could explain their views usefully right along side people with very different views. I'll note this idea itself is a poor approximation for what is really going on, which is that there are multiple aspects being mapped and they don't all match the traditional political spectrum line. That said, it's still a useful way to think. E.g. there are are two paths to fascism, but people usually only see the one their opponents are on, not their own.
- dublinben 7y ago
  This is known as Horseshoe Theory, and it's a pretty lame model of political ideology.¹ In reality, most people can't be placed on a single dimension that accurately captures their political identity. Most political scientists prefer at least a biaxial spectrum, comprising of the left/right axis and another major axis like libertarian/authoritarian.² 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum
  - kbenson 7y ago
    > it's a pretty lame model of political ideology. Well, I did say it's a poor approximation. The usefulness I alluded to is to understand that all these approximations are flawed in various ways, firstly because they are approximations, but more-so because they are all hopeless simplistic representations for what is being modeled. Biaxial is better than a single axis, but that doesn't make it better. The thing the horseshoe theory represents is something that the biaxial representation doesn't represent at all, a similarity of some aspects of though in the common extremes we see in reality. There's often a difference between diagrams that allow everything to be represented clearly and diagrams that help steer you into associations that are useful. Both have their place.

sankalpb 7y ago

Thanks, I appreciate a distinction that you're making between 'aggregation' and 'community conversation/engagement'. Have you been able to notice whether those 'button-pushing' types of comments ('highly emotional', 'imprecise in statement', 'poorly thought') are ones that push the buttons of the rest of the community as well? Do you consider yourself an outlier in this regard (having this sense for 'button-pushing' posts)?