3 ms·

> but if you give up your principals when something is difficult, why have them at all? Your answer sort of reads as if the choice of technology is the only fr

> but if you give up your principals when something is difficult, why have them at all? Your answer sort of reads as if the choice of technology is the only friction people are currently dealing with. The situation isn't easy, even using some easy to use technology like zoom. Adding friction will only make things harder for people doing their best in already hard circumstances. It may well exceed their mental budget for friction. I wish widely deployed privacy-respecting solutions were already deployed at scale, people trained in their use and a suitable curriculum available. But that's not where we are and putting more load on already well loaded people will not improve the situation.

hobs 7y ago
No, it really doesn't, which is why I prefaced it with talking about being flip. It asks the question "What is the point of a principle?" I dont think calling privacy a principle is true if you are willing to give it up for something that "just works" - I believe covid is likely one of the biggest problems in the modern age, but during times of hardship we need to cling ever harder to our principles, or consider that maybe it isn't nearly as important to us as we thought.
- Xylakant 7y ago
  > No, it really doesn't, which is why I prefaced it with talking about being flip. Preface or not, it still reads like that. You're extolling one principle. I entirely agree that privacy is important but should be upheld. But there are other conflicting principles at work here - the list here is in no way complete. * The right to privacy. * The right of pupils to receive an education * The right of teachers to limit the amount of work and energy they need to put into their work. * The right of teachers and pupils (and the general public) to stay at home and evade infection. So glorifying one principle at the expense of others is at best problematic. What's the point of upholding one principle and ignore that at the moment, it conflicts with others? And that's why your absolutism on one principle to me still reads flip - or at least ill considered - even if you preface it with "I don't want to be flip."
  - hobs 7y ago
    If your principles are in conflict, I suggest recognizing that not all of them are actually principles, which is what I poorly communicated.
    - Xylakant 7y ago
      Ok, but then you cannot have any principles, because even the principles laid out in the declaration of human rights are in conflict to each other.
    - CJefferson 7y ago
      By that argument, does anyone have any software principals? I mean, if someon told me "use software product X, or I will horribly kill you and everyone you love", I'm going to use the software.
  - floatingatoll 7y ago
    There's a missing entry here which most teachers recognize as essential, and many privacy advocates would reject as unacceptable: * The right of teachers to monitor their students activities during class. (Also: Your list is unreadable due to the use of code no-wrap formatting. Please don't use code indents for blockquoted normal text.)

hobs 7y ago

No, it really doesn't, which is why I prefaced it with talking about being flip. It asks the question "What is the point of a principle?" I dont think calling privacy a principle is true if you are willing to give it up for something that "just works" - I believe covid is likely one of the biggest problems in the modern age, but during times of hardship we need to cling ever harder to our principles, or consider that maybe it isn't nearly as important to us as we thought.

Xylakant 7y ago
> No, it really doesn't, which is why I prefaced it with talking about being flip. Preface or not, it still reads like that. You're extolling one principle. I entirely agree that privacy is important but should be upheld. But there are other conflicting principles at work here - the list here is in no way complete. * The right to privacy. * The right of pupils to receive an education * The right of teachers to limit the amount of work and energy they need to put into their work. * The right of teachers and pupils (and the general public) to stay at home and evade infection. So glorifying one principle at the expense of others is at best problematic. What's the point of upholding one principle and ignore that at the moment, it conflicts with others? And that's why your absolutism on one principle to me still reads flip - or at least ill considered - even if you preface it with "I don't want to be flip."
- hobs 7y ago
  If your principles are in conflict, I suggest recognizing that not all of them are actually principles, which is what I poorly communicated.
  - Xylakant 7y ago
    Ok, but then you cannot have any principles, because even the principles laid out in the declaration of human rights are in conflict to each other.
  - CJefferson 7y ago
    By that argument, does anyone have any software principals? I mean, if someon told me "use software product X, or I will horribly kill you and everyone you love", I'm going to use the software.
- floatingatoll 7y ago
  There's a missing entry here which most teachers recognize as essential, and many privacy advocates would reject as unacceptable: * The right of teachers to monitor their students activities during class. (Also: Your list is unreadable due to the use of code no-wrap formatting. Please don't use code indents for blockquoted normal text.)