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Singapore to Open Source Bluetooth Contact Tracing
- mcshicks 7y agoIt's kind of far down in the page so I missed it the first time I scanned it. "We are working around the clock to finalise our protocol reference documents and reference implementation, to open source what we have built, so that others may deploy their own flavours of TraceTogether - each implementing the BlueTrace protocol. We appreciate your patience in the meantime."
- mikebelanger 7y agoLots of neat descriptions on the page. Can't wait to see the reference documents.
- onion2k 7y agoIf this gets any sort of public traction it'll be built in to shop doorways, public transport, police cars, and street lights within a couple of months.
- krcz 7y agoYou can use changing IDs and publish ID history (or ID generator seed) for confirmed cases.
- snarf21 7y agoYeah, in a new york minute. This is already built into iOS in their newer Find My Phone. The carriers also know who and where we are just need to add in covid testing data. The problem is that even if it is decentralized and OSS, then the average user can't/won't install it. If it is simple and easy (centralized), then it becomes a honey pot for the government.
- t0ughcritic 7y agoCarriers know where we are, are you referring to triangulation?
- snarf21 7y agoYeah, they know what towers you are hitting.
- fierarul 7y agoTower info plus other sources. A while back I couldn't stop my iPhone from connecting to the 'free' Orange WiFi at my mall. Since signal is weak I enabled 'WiFi calling' which also shares location info with the carrier (so they know if you are roaming or not, presumably).
- laegooose 7y agoCan you please explain or give a link, how can I use Find My Phone for anything coronavirus-related?
- yosito 7y agoYou can't, but apparently Find My Phone uses Bluetooth to find nearby phones and thats the same technology that Bluetooth contact tracing for coronavirus would use.
- SkyPuncher 7y agoI was under the impression many private sector companies have already deployed these tools. Just a matter of companies buying/implementing them.
- sjf 7y agoYes, visit tracking has been around for years. Here is one product (https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6100636?hl=en https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/6100636?hl=en), I assume there are many more. I guess it's not more well-known because it's not in the stores interests to publicize it.
- flowless 7y agoAny idea how it works? The site is not very helpful in that manner.
- closeparen 7y agoProbably the same way that Google Maps traffic or “this restaurant is busy now” indications work.
- verify_sirrah 7y agoPresumably using Bluetooth beacons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy_beacon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth_low_energy_beacon
- fuckyah 7y agoit wont
- votepaunchy 7y agoWould like to see Apple utilize their ultrawideband chip for decentralized contact tracing.
- DaniloDias 7y agoWhat the hell, I hate Bluetooth now?
- k__ 7y agoI didn't have any positive experiences with Bluetooth, it was always too flaky, so I didn't even activate it for years now.
- m4rtink 7y agoAnother project by a group of Czech volunteers: https://github.com/covid19cz/erouska-android https://github.com/covid19cz/erouska-android https://github.com/covid19cz/erouska-ios https://github.com/covid19cz/erouska-ios
- sly010 7y agoSadly this won't happen in the US. Even if it's really private, people won't install it unless it's pushed down to them as an update from above, and no company will want to be the first to push it. I suspect the bigger issue is people don't want to be told by an app that they need to go get tested. Come to think of it, cities like New York could push it as part of a bigger, more comprehensive covid app...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- tomcooks 7y agoCan't wait to be tracked by tech developed by a governmental team in the name of safety. Opensource or not a leash is a leash.
- ivanonymous 7y agoI'm curious as a non-expert what's specifically worrying about their privacy model? My intuition is that rapid adoption of a relatively transparent privacy-preseving option could preempt more heavy-handed approaches to what could be a very valuable public health intervention.
- tomcooks 7y agoI'd agree if remote tracking was the only option, and if there was a guaranteed policy against public backslash towards those that don't comply out of privacy reasons (which would skyrocket in a health hazard emergency). These privacy exceptions all affected goverments are talking about (Italy being a great example, viz. Veneto region governor asking for a change in privacy laws the other day) are not going to magically disappear once the coast is clear, just like post 9/11 emergency laws still being used in the US. I believe there are other ways to help people and that, if you are a government that claims having to resort to remote control its popoulation, maybe your power is either insufficient for your secret expansion goals or you're an inefficient populist. Every (western) government publicly hates the Chinese government but they do seem to have wet dreams about the population control bit, especially when backed by corporations.
- shadowgovt 7y agoExactly. People are decrying this because it gives governments capabilities, as if decrying its existence changes that capability model or implies that in the absence of this tool and in a state of emergency, governments wouldn't be stuck trying to accomplish the same goals this tool enables using cruder methods that would be more intrusive to people's lives. It's like hating gunpowder exists because people can make bullets and fight wars with it.
- WaylonKenning 7y ago
- Rifu 7y agoI think in these extraordinary times, it’s nice to see the government proactively trying to do more to counteract the worst pandemic the country has ever seen. As much as we might all cry foul over the curtailing of freedom, there is a lot to be said in this current environment about contact tracers immediately knowing who a known covid carrier has come in contact with, which in turn means a speedier response from the medical teams. That being said though, the app is absolute garbage on iPhone. Obviously not really their fault, but needing to have the app actively on for it to work is absolutely going to lead to people not bothering to turning it on.
- mshroyer 7y agoI agree this is bad, but I don't understand why it is. Not an iOS developer but I was under the impression apps can run in the background to maintain Bluetooth connections. Assuming Apple's policies are in fact preventing them from running in the background, does Apple have a mechanism to grant them an exception for this use case? Does someone have a contact at Apple who could reach out to them?
- zyl1n 7y agoNot an iOS developer either, but I think apps cannot make new bluetooth connections in background, which is a requirement for this app.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Fiahil 7y agoI just got out of a call where we arrived at the exact same design as a way to track down the infection spread. Thank you for posting this!
- Dystopian 7y agoI feel like this would be a lot easier and have a higher rate of usage/compliance if our tech companies actually worked with people to release or opt-into sharing this information for when it's necessary (information which is already secretly shared with governments for security). For the majority of people if they go to https://www.google.com/maps/timeline https://www.google.com/maps/timeline they'll have a tracker of everywhere they've visited and the time they were in each location. If you could take people's accounts who've been infected and give them the ability to opt-into sharing this information you could have a pretty good source of information about the locations where they dwelled for long periods of time and who should go into self-isolation.
- parkersweb 7y agoI don’t in my case because I’m not comfortable with the commercial information that gives Google. One of the gestures I think Google could make in this fight is to allow people to opt into that data sharing on a strictly limited basis. I’d opt in if it was only going to be provided for the purposes of medical infection contact tracing while this pandemic is rife.
- bingojess 7y agoI don't think anyone trusts Google enough. They can help by providing governments with anonymized data they already have. Immediately what comes to mind is identifying to governments public hot spots while lockdowns are supposed to be going on so that they can send people to disperse the gatherings. I'm sure people can come up with better ideas
- nailer 7y agoWhat is contact tracking? The article does not tell us.
- Cerium 7y agoAs I understand, contact tracking is recording which people come into proximity so that if one gets sick the task of contact tracing can be facilitated by the contract tracking data.
- smoe 7y agoOnce you have an identified case, you trace who they have been in close contact with recently and start contacting/testing/isolating them and trace it further from there E.g. In Switzerland this was done manually (by medical staff mostly i think) in the very beginning, but they gave up very quickly on it because of lack of resources.
- bingojess 7y agoFor context, Singapore has a team of 20 that can call contacts of confirmed cases, they are able to make 4000 calls a day. Those in contact with confirmed cases are made to a mandatory home quarantine, i think something like 35k people in Singapore are currently serving home quarantines.
- luminati 7y agoThere is also an app/project out of MIT called 'Private Kit', which is primarily designed to address the privacy issue. [1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/mit-researchers-launch-location-tracking-effort-for-the-new-coronavirus-11585315674 https://www.wsj.com/articles/mit-researchers-launch-location... [2] https://safepaths.mit.edu/ https://safepaths.mit.edu/
- badrabbit 7y agoIt should be opt-in, if you don't opt-in,mandatory quara tine for you. And this should not be something they can renew after the crisis like the US Patriot act.
- joshblour 7y agoI built a react native version: https://github.com/yonahforst/trackandtrace https://github.com/yonahforst/trackandtrace Looking for contributors!
- nessup 7y agoI’m currently working on a community-run contact tracing app in the open: https://github.com/epicollect/epi-collect https://github.com/epicollect/epi-collect It is not a mobile app. You export your data from Google (thanks GDPR!), and filter out personally identifiable data points before submitting. We also let you know exactly who is about to use your donated data (we only allow academic researchers to have access), and give you advance notice so you can delete it if you don’t want your data to be used in a particular project. We are MIT licensed and are figuring out how to make data donation safe via UX and engineering. We need all the help we can get - even if it’s just feedback. Feel reach out! Nessup@gmail.com
- sohkamyung 6y agoUpdate: has now been open-sourced [1] [1] https://github.com/OpenTrace-community https://github.com/OpenTrace-community