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I think comparing Singapore, a tiny, highly urbanized island nation, with the US, a continent size country with a vast number of points of entry, is a little bi

I think comparing Singapore, a tiny, highly urbanized island nation, with the US, a continent size country with a vast number of points of entry, is a little bit apples to oranges. Don't get me wrong, I do think that some Asian countries took great measures to contain the virus, and some western countries failed to do so, but I doubt the same measures would be equally as effective everywhere. This is relevant because the spread of the virus is a multifaceted and complex issue, and reductionist explanations might take us down the wrong path if not careful.

fit2rule 7y ago
There is a great deal of fallacy to be gleaned by the comparison between the two states - but quite a bit of truth, though, too. The American cavalier "invincibility" attribute seems to be truly at play here - witness the kids in Florida - whereas in South Korea, a state composed, traditionally, of an enslaved population: the obedience bit has been key. It's an uncomfortable thought, but it is rugged American hubris which is propagating the virus right now throughout the country. And it was Korean humility and selflessness which brought it down to controllable levels. This article is a flowery way of pointing that out, imho ...
- deleted 7y ago
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RVuRnvbM2e 7y ago
American exceptionalism is a hell of a drug.
Tepix 7y ago
If anything, containing a pandemic in a large city is much harder than doing so in the countryside.
- Mountain_Skies 7y ago
  Singapore is very dense but it is also very authoritarian. They can take measures that would be both legally and socially unthinkable in the United States.
  - logicchains 7y ago
    Yes, they just recently shut bars and clubs, and forced restaurants to allow one meter of spacing between patrons. I can't imagine American governments ever doing something so authoritarian.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    And what would those specific measures be, pray tell? If anything, Singapore's measures have been more moderate than what's happening today in the USA.
- deleted 7y ago
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Zigurd 7y ago
Arguments like this are a longstanding template to excuse everything from crappy broadband to poor health outcomes in general. Yes, America is big, but bits don't get tired in long fiber links, and health care outcomes are independent of distance. America needs to start examining why we lag in so many quality of life issues.
- umanwizard 7y ago
  The real reason is just that the US is not as highly developed as the most highly developed countries in Western Europe or East Asia. I always thought it was weird when people say things like “the US is the worst in the developed world on so many measures!” A bit like someone saying “I’m one of the shortest people in the world who’s 180cm or taller”.
bawolff 7y ago
Why is it anytime usa screws up its because its a diverse nation that's different from all the other nations? Maybe sometimes the USA is just incompetent and usually it can get away with being incompetent without consequence because nobody wants to poke the 800lb gorilla, but sometimes consequences do happen.
- deleted 7y ago
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- odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
  Because pretty much all of Europe did the same so it isn't exclusive to USA? NY did almost as many tests in a day as some european countries have done total. Of course they are going to have a spike in cases. No-one believe (in Europe at least) that the number of cases are the truth, and we pretty much know that a lot of people aren't being tests. Portugal until 2 days ago was rejecting tests still of people that had no 'known' chain of contagion. (Source, ex-wife works in the frontline of this crisis)
  - bawolff 7y ago
    I don't see how "other people screwed up too" is a counter argument to my argument that "usa is different from every country in the world and thus its impossible to do things right" is bullshit. They're two completely different claims. It is difficult to compare reported cases across countries, and certainly there are many countries that have dropped the ball (Iran especially comes to mind). At the risk of sounding unfeeling, a clearer picture will probably emerge once the deaths start rolling in, since dying is a very binary state and less subject to measurement bias due to gov (in)action.
    - odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
      I agree. But even with deaths will be tricky. Some countries define any death that tests positive as a COVID death, while others only mark it as so if no other more pressing co-morbilities are found.

fit2rule 7y ago

There is a great deal of fallacy to be gleaned by the comparison between the two states - but quite a bit of truth, though, too. The American cavalier "invincibility" attribute seems to be truly at play here - witness the kids in Florida - whereas in South Korea, a state composed, traditionally, of an enslaved population: the obedience bit has been key. It's an uncomfortable thought, but it is rugged American hubris which is propagating the virus right now throughout the country. And it was Korean humility and selflessness which brought it down to controllable levels. This article is a flowery way of pointing that out, imho ...

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

RVuRnvbM2e 7y ago

American exceptionalism is a hell of a drug.

Tepix 7y ago

If anything, containing a pandemic in a large city is much harder than doing so in the countryside.

Mountain_Skies 7y ago
Singapore is very dense but it is also very authoritarian. They can take measures that would be both legally and socially unthinkable in the United States.
- logicchains 7y ago
  Yes, they just recently shut bars and clubs, and forced restaurants to allow one meter of spacing between patrons. I can't imagine American governments ever doing something so authoritarian.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  And what would those specific measures be, pray tell? If anything, Singapore's measures have been more moderate than what's happening today in the USA.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

Zigurd 7y ago

Arguments like this are a longstanding template to excuse everything from crappy broadband to poor health outcomes in general. Yes, America is big, but bits don't get tired in long fiber links, and health care outcomes are independent of distance. America needs to start examining why we lag in so many quality of life issues.

umanwizard 7y ago
The real reason is just that the US is not as highly developed as the most highly developed countries in Western Europe or East Asia. I always thought it was weird when people say things like “the US is the worst in the developed world on so many measures!” A bit like someone saying “I’m one of the shortest people in the world who’s 180cm or taller”.

bawolff 7y ago

Why is it anytime usa screws up its because its a diverse nation that's different from all the other nations? Maybe sometimes the USA is just incompetent and usually it can get away with being incompetent without consequence because nobody wants to poke the 800lb gorilla, but sometimes consequences do happen.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
Because pretty much all of Europe did the same so it isn't exclusive to USA? NY did almost as many tests in a day as some european countries have done total. Of course they are going to have a spike in cases. No-one believe (in Europe at least) that the number of cases are the truth, and we pretty much know that a lot of people aren't being tests. Portugal until 2 days ago was rejecting tests still of people that had no 'known' chain of contagion. (Source, ex-wife works in the frontline of this crisis)
- bawolff 7y ago
  I don't see how "other people screwed up too" is a counter argument to my argument that "usa is different from every country in the world and thus its impossible to do things right" is bullshit. They're two completely different claims. It is difficult to compare reported cases across countries, and certainly there are many countries that have dropped the ball (Iran especially comes to mind). At the risk of sounding unfeeling, a clearer picture will probably emerge once the deaths start rolling in, since dying is a very binary state and less subject to measurement bias due to gov (in)action.
  - odshoifsdhfs 7y ago
    I agree. But even with deaths will be tricky. Some countries define any death that tests positive as a COVID death, while others only mark it as so if no other more pressing co-morbilities are found.