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I'm a bit confused by this post. The author seems to celebrate a private office. I strongly prefer open work spaces that you share with others, as do many compa

I'm a bit confused by this post. The author seems to celebrate a private office. I strongly prefer open work spaces that you share with others, as do many companies I've worked with/seen. Care to share your opinion? I'm curious...

theoj 16y ago
The idea is that developers should have a quiet, distraction-free space to do their coding. With open spaces and cubicles you hear other people's conversations and you cannot reach the deep focused attention that you need to produce good, bug-free code.
- whakojacko 16y ago
  A decent semi-open setup has you not seeing much other than your monitor, and not hearing anything because you have good (company paid for) headphones on. And like others have said, If I can always WFH when I feel it is necessary.
Locke1689 16y ago
I shared an office in one situation, worked in an open space in another, and had a private office in a third. Private office was by far the best situation. Being able to grab complete silence when necessary was amazing. Private offices end up being the best about 90% of the time. When you do need to collaborate, conference rooms are available and using laptops isn't hard. Most offices can also support about 2-3 other co-developers with ease. If I had a choice I would choose a private office every time.
plinkplonk 16y ago
"The author seems to celebrate a private office. Care to share your opinion? I'm curious..." From experience, my most preferred to least preferred office options are (1) Work from home (2) private soundproof office with a door (3) shared sound proof office (2 or 3 people in a medium/large room) with a door(4) open work spaces with a maximum of 5-8 people (5) standard cube (6) crowded and noisy "open work spaces" where you can't hear yourself think / get interrupted all the time, especially the "agile" version with enforced pairing and the "buzz of conversation" and so on. The best options give you silence. The least inundate you in noise.
seanalltogether 16y ago
I'm right there with you. The informal collaboration possible in an open space is so much more productive for me.
- InclinedPlane 16y ago
  Why do you imagine that informal collaboration isn't possible with offices? It happens all the time. Maybe you're just being prejudiced against a situation you have no experience with?
  - seanalltogether 16y ago
    Because I've worked in both environments. I say informal because in open spaces you get involved in conversations and collaborative efforts that normally you have to go out of your way to be involved in. Here's a good example. I was having a conversation with a dev about building an iPad app in my spare time and another dev sitting near by jumped in and argued that I should focus my efforts on the Mac App Store since it would be new and relatively easier to get noticed. 3 months later and I have an app selling well enough to quit my job if I really wanted to. This golden little side comment would not have happened if we all had offices.
redthrowaway 16y ago
Ideally, I'd like both: an open space to collaborate in, and a quiet place tucked away from interruptions and distractions to code in.
- andrewflnr 16y ago
  This. People get hung up on this type of debate when there's a perfectly obvious hybrid solution.
petercooper 16y ago
Different strokes for different folks. And not only that, sometimes people vary in their preferences depending on the context. I like working alone at night most of the time but sometimes a busy coffee shop really does the trick.
absconditus 16y ago
In my experience open spaces are preferred by those who are less competent and want to bother me all day with questions.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  You never ask people questions when coding?
  - absconditus 16y ago
    I am not opposed to all questions. I am opposed to the questions that are typically asked by those who prefer open spaces. I am also not opposed to basic questions asked by those who are new to the field, but I am often asked basic questions by those with 3+ years of experience. Read a book.
    - nostrademons 16y ago
      It's possible we just know different people who prefer open spaces, but the questions I'm frequently asked are more specific variations on "How does Google's serving and indexing pipeline work?" and "What are the best practices for building JavaScript-heavy webapps in an environment where latency matters?" There are obviously no books about those topics (well, there are some about the latter, but they're all wrong, and we have experimental data to prove it). And even if they were, they'd be out of date before they were published. Google's indexing system changed completely when Caffeine was launched last year - the only way to get information about it is to ask the people who're responsible for developing it. And the ecosystem surrounding the web is continually changing, and we keep running new experiments to keep up with it, because things that we were absolutely certain were true 5 years ago no longer are.
      - absconditus 16y ago
        Most companies are nothing like Google.
      - 16y ago
egor83 16y ago
A poll about preferred work environments: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270424 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270424
maximilianburke 16y ago
I've done both and much prefer offices. It's much easier to collaborate in an office than it is to drown out distracting noise from a shared workspace. Offices don't keep you from being able to swing by someone's desk or have someone drop by yours, unless you shut your door for a reason. My current area at work is open and I have to on occasion bring ear plugs to keep the noise down to a level where I can concentrate. There are group meetings, conference calls on speakerphone, and loud personal conversations happening all the time. IMO, if it comes to needing ear plugs then the one purported benefit of working in an open area is lost since you can't really be sharing/collaborative if you've closed yourself off.
SkyMarshal 16y ago
It's all explained in the book Peopleware, along with years of data to back the conclusions.
rdouble 16y ago
I've worked at startups with open plans for the past 12 years. At every one, it starts out ok when there are less than 10 people. As soon as there's about 20, almost all of the important programming work is done after hours when all the loud people are no longer there. The only thing that gets done during the day (programming wise) is putting out fires. I've come to the conclusion that half the reason startups require "insane hours" is because during the day, the programmers are distracted and only working at 20% capacity.
duhmain 16y ago
Open office spaces are great! For socializing, that is. If you actually want to get work done, peace and quiet is a must.

theoj 16y ago

The idea is that developers should have a quiet, distraction-free space to do their coding. With open spaces and cubicles you hear other people's conversations and you cannot reach the deep focused attention that you need to produce good, bug-free code.

whakojacko 16y ago
A decent semi-open setup has you not seeing much other than your monitor, and not hearing anything because you have good (company paid for) headphones on. And like others have said, If I can always WFH when I feel it is necessary.

Locke1689 16y ago

I shared an office in one situation, worked in an open space in another, and had a private office in a third. Private office was by far the best situation. Being able to grab complete silence when necessary was amazing. Private offices end up being the best about 90% of the time. When you do need to collaborate, conference rooms are available and using laptops isn't hard. Most offices can also support about 2-3 other co-developers with ease. If I had a choice I would choose a private office every time.

plinkplonk 16y ago

"The author seems to celebrate a private office. Care to share your opinion? I'm curious..." From experience, my most preferred to least preferred office options are (1) Work from home (2) private soundproof office with a door (3) shared sound proof office (2 or 3 people in a medium/large room) with a door(4) open work spaces with a maximum of 5-8 people (5) standard cube (6) crowded and noisy "open work spaces" where you can't hear yourself think / get interrupted all the time, especially the "agile" version with enforced pairing and the "buzz of conversation" and so on. The best options give you silence. The least inundate you in noise.

seanalltogether 16y ago

I'm right there with you. The informal collaboration possible in an open space is so much more productive for me.

InclinedPlane 16y ago
Why do you imagine that informal collaboration isn't possible with offices? It happens all the time. Maybe you're just being prejudiced against a situation you have no experience with?
- seanalltogether 16y ago
  Because I've worked in both environments. I say informal because in open spaces you get involved in conversations and collaborative efforts that normally you have to go out of your way to be involved in. Here's a good example. I was having a conversation with a dev about building an iPad app in my spare time and another dev sitting near by jumped in and argued that I should focus my efforts on the Mac App Store since it would be new and relatively easier to get noticed. 3 months later and I have an app selling well enough to quit my job if I really wanted to. This golden little side comment would not have happened if we all had offices.

redthrowaway 16y ago

Ideally, I'd like both: an open space to collaborate in, and a quiet place tucked away from interruptions and distractions to code in.

andrewflnr 16y ago
This. People get hung up on this type of debate when there's a perfectly obvious hybrid solution.

petercooper 16y ago

Different strokes for different folks. And not only that, sometimes people vary in their preferences depending on the context. I like working alone at night most of the time but sometimes a busy coffee shop really does the trick.

absconditus 16y ago

In my experience open spaces are preferred by those who are less competent and want to bother me all day with questions.

nostrademons 16y ago
You never ask people questions when coding?
- absconditus 16y ago
  I am not opposed to all questions. I am opposed to the questions that are typically asked by those who prefer open spaces. I am also not opposed to basic questions asked by those who are new to the field, but I am often asked basic questions by those with 3+ years of experience. Read a book.
  - nostrademons 16y ago
    It's possible we just know different people who prefer open spaces, but the questions I'm frequently asked are more specific variations on "How does Google's serving and indexing pipeline work?" and "What are the best practices for building JavaScript-heavy webapps in an environment where latency matters?" There are obviously no books about those topics (well, there are some about the latter, but they're all wrong, and we have experimental data to prove it). And even if they were, they'd be out of date before they were published. Google's indexing system changed completely when Caffeine was launched last year - the only way to get information about it is to ask the people who're responsible for developing it. And the ecosystem surrounding the web is continually changing, and we keep running new experiments to keep up with it, because things that we were absolutely certain were true 5 years ago no longer are.
    - absconditus 16y ago
      Most companies are nothing like Google.
    - 16y ago

egor83 16y ago

A poll about preferred work environments: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270424 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2270424

maximilianburke 16y ago

I've done both and much prefer offices. It's much easier to collaborate in an office than it is to drown out distracting noise from a shared workspace. Offices don't keep you from being able to swing by someone's desk or have someone drop by yours, unless you shut your door for a reason. My current area at work is open and I have to on occasion bring ear plugs to keep the noise down to a level where I can concentrate. There are group meetings, conference calls on speakerphone, and loud personal conversations happening all the time. IMO, if it comes to needing ear plugs then the one purported benefit of working in an open area is lost since you can't really be sharing/collaborative if you've closed yourself off.

SkyMarshal 16y ago

It's all explained in the book Peopleware, along with years of data to back the conclusions.

rdouble 16y ago

I've worked at startups with open plans for the past 12 years. At every one, it starts out ok when there are less than 10 people. As soon as there's about 20, almost all of the important programming work is done after hours when all the loud people are no longer there. The only thing that gets done during the day (programming wise) is putting out fires. I've come to the conclusion that half the reason startups require "insane hours" is because during the day, the programmers are distracted and only working at 20% capacity.

duhmain 16y ago

Open office spaces are great! For socializing, that is. If you actually want to get work done, peace and quiet is a must.