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> If we couldn't produce it under any circumstance that would be a massive national security flaw. :) Yeah, it's so much a national security flaw that American

> If we couldn't produce it under any circumstance that would be a massive national security flaw. :) Yeah, it's so much a national security flaw that American law gives American citizens the right to claim islands as parts of the United States in order to secure access to a very difficult to acquire resource. > Having as many people as we can bear sit at home is the best course of action at the very present moment to avoid spreading this virus. This is not up for debate, and I never disagreed with it. > The people sitting at home need to be able to buy what they need and pay the essential workers producing and transporting what they need to them. Certainly. I wasn't disagreeing with you that people will need compensation for lost income. However, what we were discussing was this: > Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll still be able to eat, we'll still have roofs over our heads, etc. The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. The ultra-rich are not going to suffer. They have their own personal capital they will use for their enjoyment. The people who will suffer are the American tax payer (regardless of income) who now has a larger debt burden. At some point, the American tax burden will overshadow the service we pay on debts. Then all faith will be lossed. It may not happen after this bill. It may not happen after 100 of these bills, but it will happen eventually, and it'll not harm the rich, I'll tell you that.

omegaworks 7y ago
>it'll not harm the rich, I'll tell you that. Inflation, once it is an actual problem, can be taxed away and we can structure that tax progressively. The rich will pay their fair share. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern-monetary-theory-new-moment-explained https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern...
- tathougies 7y ago
  They'll just leave the United States, then? Why is it 'fair'? They made their money by giving people things they wanted in exchange for money the people were happy to give them. How is taking it back fair?
  - omegaworks 7y ago
    > They'll just leave the United States, then? American citizen expatriates pay tax. >How is taking it back fair? We live in a society. :)
    - tathougies 7y ago
      > American citizen expatriates pay tax. Not if they give up their citizenship for a small fee. Plenty of countries want rich citizens and would be willing to give them citizenship. > We live in a society. :) Oh, so because society is stronger than one individual, it's right for them to exercise their force? That sounds like might makes right. Your ethics are atrocious. Part of that society is that if two people agree to give each other money in exchange for things, the one who pays cash for an equivalent asset doesn't come asking for it back. Otherwise, you must be okay with employers asking for wages back.
      - omegaworks 7y ago
        >Your ethics are atrocious. Now you're just engaging in personal attacks. "Taxation is theft" libertarian dead-ender thinking. You're going to have to do the work yourself of understanding that there is a cost to maintain the system that enables your exchange and varying opinions as to who should pay that cost. Asserting that the cost doesn't exist is fanciful ignorance. Good day.
  - viklove 7y ago
    > They'll just leave the United States, then? Good, they're leeches on society and add nothing of value. If they added value, they wouldn't pay their workers the bare minimum and list them as contractors so they don't get health insurance. Let's encourage more compassionate corporations to expand their operations, and force greedy corporations out. I think we'll all be better off for it.
viklove 7y ago
> They have their own personal capital they will use for their enjoyment. Where did they get this capital? I say we take it back from them and use it to buy food. Not that there's a shortage of food. I guess I should say we should take it from them and hand it to Americans so they are allowed to access the food which we have already produced. It's a sad state of things when Americans go hungry solely due to billionaires hoarding wealth on private islands. The food is there, the people who need it are there, but our "economic system" says they're not allowed to access it until a billionaire decides they're good enough to be employed to make them richer.
- tathougies 7y ago
  > Where did they get this capital? I would assume people gave it to them in exchange for goods that those same people were unwilling to produce? > It's a sad state of things when Americans go hungry solely due to billionaires hoarding wealth on private islands. No one is going hungry. People have paid unemployment insurance and will be getting a stimulus check anyway. > ut our "economic system" says they're not allowed to access it until a billionaire decides they're good enough to be employed to make them richer. You don't need a billionaire to employ you. Just make something your neighbor wants and charge them for it. I made a small fortune selling tomato starts to my neighbors. Which billionaire employed me? Maybe people should start asking what they can do for others instead of waiting for someone to spell it out for them.
  - viklove 7y ago
    > those same people were unwilling to produce? Because people just have the option to produce food for themselves right? > No one is going hungry. This is just plain false. Many children who relied on school lunches are going hungry as we speak. > Just make something your neighbor wants and charge them for it. My neighbor is just as poor as me. We can only afford rent, food, and healthcare (healthcare is a luxury). What are my options now? I have to work as an Uber driver because it's hard to find work around here. > I made a small fortune selling tomato starts to my neighbors. That's great, if you live in a rich neighborhood. Unfortunately when I go door to door in wealthy neighborhoods the cops pick me up.

omegaworks 7y ago

>it'll not harm the rich, I'll tell you that. Inflation, once it is an actual problem, can be taxed away and we can structure that tax progressively. The rich will pay their fair share. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern-monetary-theory-new-moment-explained https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/2019/4/16/18251646/modern...

tathougies 7y ago
They'll just leave the United States, then? Why is it 'fair'? They made their money by giving people things they wanted in exchange for money the people were happy to give them. How is taking it back fair?
- omegaworks 7y ago
  > They'll just leave the United States, then? American citizen expatriates pay tax. >How is taking it back fair? We live in a society. :)
  - tathougies 7y ago
    > American citizen expatriates pay tax. Not if they give up their citizenship for a small fee. Plenty of countries want rich citizens and would be willing to give them citizenship. > We live in a society. :) Oh, so because society is stronger than one individual, it's right for them to exercise their force? That sounds like might makes right. Your ethics are atrocious. Part of that society is that if two people agree to give each other money in exchange for things, the one who pays cash for an equivalent asset doesn't come asking for it back. Otherwise, you must be okay with employers asking for wages back.
    - omegaworks 7y ago
      >Your ethics are atrocious. Now you're just engaging in personal attacks. "Taxation is theft" libertarian dead-ender thinking. You're going to have to do the work yourself of understanding that there is a cost to maintain the system that enables your exchange and varying opinions as to who should pay that cost. Asserting that the cost doesn't exist is fanciful ignorance. Good day.
- viklove 7y ago
  > They'll just leave the United States, then? Good, they're leeches on society and add nothing of value. If they added value, they wouldn't pay their workers the bare minimum and list them as contractors so they don't get health insurance. Let's encourage more compassionate corporations to expand their operations, and force greedy corporations out. I think we'll all be better off for it.

viklove 7y ago

> They have their own personal capital they will use for their enjoyment. Where did they get this capital? I say we take it back from them and use it to buy food. Not that there's a shortage of food. I guess I should say we should take it from them and hand it to Americans so they are allowed to access the food which we have already produced. It's a sad state of things when Americans go hungry solely due to billionaires hoarding wealth on private islands. The food is there, the people who need it are there, but our "economic system" says they're not allowed to access it until a billionaire decides they're good enough to be employed to make them richer.

tathougies 7y ago
> Where did they get this capital? I would assume people gave it to them in exchange for goods that those same people were unwilling to produce? > It's a sad state of things when Americans go hungry solely due to billionaires hoarding wealth on private islands. No one is going hungry. People have paid unemployment insurance and will be getting a stimulus check anyway. > ut our "economic system" says they're not allowed to access it until a billionaire decides they're good enough to be employed to make them richer. You don't need a billionaire to employ you. Just make something your neighbor wants and charge them for it. I made a small fortune selling tomato starts to my neighbors. Which billionaire employed me? Maybe people should start asking what they can do for others instead of waiting for someone to spell it out for them.
- viklove 7y ago
  > those same people were unwilling to produce? Because people just have the option to produce food for themselves right? > No one is going hungry. This is just plain false. Many children who relied on school lunches are going hungry as we speak. > Just make something your neighbor wants and charge them for it. My neighbor is just as poor as me. We can only afford rent, food, and healthcare (healthcare is a luxury). What are my options now? I have to work as an Uber driver because it's hard to find work around here. > I made a small fortune selling tomato starts to my neighbors. That's great, if you live in a rich neighborhood. Unfortunately when I go door to door in wealthy neighborhoods the cops pick me up.