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Darling – Run macOS software on Linux
- peter_d_sherman 7y agoAlso: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darling_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darling_(software)
- archanox 7y agohttps://github.com/darlinghq/darling/issues/542 https://github.com/darlinghq/darling/issues/542 This seems like it's a big deal.
- emmelaich 7y agoI'd love to know (of popular software) what works well, and what doesn't. Is there such a list?
- rixrax 7y agoAnd most importantly (to me), does Adobe Lightroom, Premiere and Photoshop run under this? Frankly, those are about the last pieces of desktop software that prevent me to switch to Linux.
- jcelerier 7y agoWhat job are you doing that you require these three software in addition to being most likely a sw developer ?
- dheera 7y agoI'm able to do almost everything I need to with Darktable, Kdenlive, and GIMP.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- shp0ngle 7y agothis is a very very experimental piece of software, where they are happy to run some terminal apps. So sorry, no
- Scarbutt 7y agoadobe has windows versions and there's wine.
- a012 7y agoFrom the homepage: > Does it support GUI apps? > Almost! This took us a lot of time and effort, but we finally have basic experimental support for running simple graphical applications. It requires some special setup for now though, so do not expect it to work out of the box just yet. We're working on this; stay tuned!
- CMCDragonkai 7y agoWould love to run monodraw on Linux
- Qasaur 7y agoIf this works with Adobe Creative Cloud, then moving to a Linux distro has suddenly become much more attractive.
- kick 7y agoThe homepage notes that it can't run complex graphical software yet. With that in mind, some recent versions of Adobe software like Photoshop have worked fine in Wine for a while now.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Doctor_Fegg 7y agoIf this works with Adobe Creative _Suite_, ie pre-subscription, then I’m sold.
- samwestdev 7y agoCan't you just use the Window version? Adobe CC works fine with Wine.
- deviantfero 7y agoDoes it have pen pressure support already? Last time I checked pen pressure only worked on CS2 and below on wine
- shp0ngle 7y agothis is a very very experimental piece of software, where they are happy to run some terminal apps. So sorry, no
- toastal 7y agoAs far as raster graphics, Krita, GIMP, and Darktable can get you professional results without needing to resort to closed-source software.
- ashton314 7y agoDo my eyes deceive me? O.o What trickery is this?! If I can run iTerm2 on Linux… snap. Um, I would seriously consider switching entirely over to Linux. My killer apps that make it hard for me to switch: - iTerm2 (must-have) - OmniGraffle (really nice, but not critical I guess) - Little Snitch (I understand there are alternatives, but LS is so nice!) - MoneyWell (budgeting—haven't found anything better) If anyone has any experience running those apps under Linux, please let me know.
- Hydraulix989 7y agoGetting LS to work in a Wine-like environment will be tricky. I bet it works internally by exposing a separate network device that filters traffic much like Wireshark, and the low-level abstractions for doing something like that are very OS-specific.
- throwbackThurs 7y agoIterm2? There are amazing terminal apps for Linux. Look at Kitty.
- moondev 7y agoiTerm2 is is the main thing holding you back? Give tilix a try and you will forget all about iTerm2 https://gnunn1.github.io/tilix-web/ https://gnunn1.github.io/tilix-web/ Then you can also enjoy: - running containers natively without a clunky VM - KVM virtualization - say goodbye to virtualbox - middle-click paste - sounds odd but is really intuitive - infinite desktop customization - level up your linux skills - nothing does this faster than running linux as your daily driver - no longer at the mercy of one company potentially removing x86 for ARM because it benefits them not you https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21196611/arm-macbook-desktop-apple-2021-release-date https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/27/21196611/arm-macbook-desk...
- crispinb 7y agoI'd add: - being permitted to choose your own hardware. And even (heaven forfend) repair it.
- uranium235 7y agoThis has been around at least since 2015 ive been watching it a bit good to see it's getting some work
- lathiat 7y agoI've been wanting to get it to execute the bonjour conformance test on linux so I can do CI of Avahi against it. I didn't have any luck last time might be worth a look again.
- antoineMoPa 7y agoDoes this work with Safari? It would be very useful for cross browser testing.
- saagarjha 7y agoNo GUI apps (well, kinda). But you can run WebKit on Linux already, if that helps.
- butz 7y agoCould you elaborate on running WebKit on Linux? Is it the same engine that latest Safari release is using?
- mthoms 7y agoYes, Safari is built on Webkit. Check out the downloads page for Linux versions. https://webkit.org https://webkit.org
- saagarjha 7y agoSafari mostly uses the open-source WebKit, except it of course sets all the Mac defines and Apple-specific feature flags, and there’s a bit of extra code sprinkled in internally. On Linux you can get something similar but not exactly the same by using one of the WebKit browsers, such as GNOME Web.
- butz 7y agoThanks, just installed Epiphany and was able to reproduce issue with flexbox that only Safari had. Somehow I thought that Safari and WebKit browsers were using a bit different forks of WebKit. That proves me wrong.
- saagarjha 7y agoThey are; it just might not be different enough for your purposes.
- dfabulich 7y agoI just want to run Xcode on AWS. Even just the CLI tool xcodebuild would be fine!
- saagarjha 7y agoParts of the command line toolchain work already. Try it!
- mikkelam 7y agoWow is that true? A lot of people could save a shit ton of money for that CI and automatic tooling for macOS, iOS and so on
- boudin 7y agoI'm discovering this too, and quite eager to try, being able to build iOS apps on Linux would be a big step forward for CI/CD. I just found this documentation from Godot: https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/development/compiling/cross-compiling_for_ios_on_linux.html https://docs.godotengine.org/en/stable/development/compiling... Actually, there's an xcode example in the doc as well: https://wiki.darlinghq.org/what_to_try https://wiki.darlinghq.org/what_to_try
- ratmice 7y agoNote that this appears to require installation of xcode, I recommend reading its license terms which require being run on apple hardware. Only very old versions of the SDK lack those license terms.
- cutler 7y ago"Does it support GUI apps? Almost!". In what sense can this be considered to be "running MacOS software" then?
- kalessin 7y agoA lot of software doesn't have a GUI, even on macOS?
- DeathArrow 7y agoMost command line software have been ported to many operating systems or are trivial to port.
- innocenat 7y agoxcodebuild?
- chipotle_coyote 7y agoI've been using OS X since about 2002, if I'm remembering right -- I bought my first Mac in 2001, I'm pretty sure (one of the crazy "clamshell" iBooks with a PowerPC G3), and OS X was not really suitable as a daily driver until 10.2 "Jaguar" in August 2002. I mention all this because even with that nearly 18 years of experience, I am really straining to think of a single non-GUI application for macOS that wasn't a Unix command line port. There are some Apple-provided system utility commands, and, fine, but probably of pretty marginal use in this context. I think it's a great project, don't get me wrong, and I wish I had the system-programming chops to help. But it still seems to mostly be a proof of concept. I hope it keeps growing!
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- filleduchaos 7y agoApart from the Xcode toolchain, I cannot for the life of me think of a single macOS application that both has no GUI _and_ isn't already cross-platform or a Darwin/BSD version of a tool that already exists on Linux. I'd actually like to know what non-Xcode command line apps you (or anyone else reading this!) is using that explicitly target macOS and nothing else - I've used Macs for only about five years and primarily for dev work, so maybe there's a treasure trove of cool stuff I'm missing.
- imhoguy 7y agoLinux is eating the World /s ;)
- vaer-k 7y agoMissed opportunity to call it Beer, which would have paired very nicely with Wine
- bozzcl 7y agoMight as well call it Cheese then.
- ekianjo 7y agoalready taken by webcam application on Linux
- abiogenesis 7y agoYou can't run homebrew on cheese though.
- DeathArrow 7y agoDoes this allow building iOS apps on Linux? I'd love to be able to use WSL2 to build iOS apps under Windows 10.
- unixhero 7y agoI think you're taking this a step far. What does Windows have to do with this?
- abiogenesis 7y agoEmulception: Run darling on the Linux subsystem on Windows 10.
- wtracy 7y agoWSL doesn't meet the project's requirements: https://github.com/darlinghq/darling/issues/260 https://github.com/darlinghq/darling/issues/260
- yellowapple 7y agoOn the other hand, it's a bit weird that Darling requires a kernel module. Given the name (darling-mach) I guess it's doing something to make Linux look more like XNU, but it's surprising that the Darling team has to do that within Linux itself (given that Wine is apparently able to make Linux look like NT in userspace).
- Nullabillity 7y agoNot sure it's the underlying reason, but for a long while Go would use raw syscalls on Darwin, which is something that Windows has explicitly sabotaged for ages. It's a lot easier to trap a library call from userspace than a syscall.
- Tobu 7y ago
- thelittleone 7y agoPerfect timing for me. Macbook Pro 2017 logic board died and can't get it in for repair due to shutdowns. So installed Linux Mint on Thinkpad T420. This will help me a lot, I'd be pleased if I could make a permanent shift from Mac. Is this something Apple is likely to try and break constantly with software updates?
- Rolcol 7y agoThis project is nowhere near the level of Wine, if that's what you're expecting. They admit they have basic experimental support for simple GUIs. Anything command-line is highly likely on Linux anyway.
- hanklazard 7y agoLenovo laptops seem to be great machines to convert to Linux. My daily laptop for the past few yrs is a carbon X1 running Mint and I just converted my wife’s (different gen) carbon X1 over to Pop!_OS for her. My only gripe with either is the lack of fine-tuning available for hi-dpi settings but my understanding is that this is a Linux problem generally.
- kinleyd 7y agoI don't suppose I should get my hopes up for macOS DAWS? That would involve resolution for both GUI and audio latency.
- mikkelam 7y agoI honestly just last monday moved from MacOS on my desktop (don't ask) to an ubuntu machine, so that I can use my nvidia card. I'm already missing a few apps, this looks really neat! I'm really hoping they work out how to get bigger apps running nicely
- dang 7y ago2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19772322 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19772322 2016: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12854895 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12854895
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- aasasd 7y agoAfter learning of the existence of a bunch of compatibility layers, I'm now occasionally pining for a Linux→Mac one. Because dealing with BSD software, aka ‘unknown option --help’, is a source of irritation sometimes. Plus there's actually open-source Linux software that doesn't have open-source analogs on Mac (not that I'll remember right now what it was). But then again, Linux has /proc and a boatload of common APIs beyond kernel calls.
- saagarjha 7y agohttps://github.com/tbodt/ish https://github.com/tbodt/ish https://github.com/linux-noah/noah https://github.com/linux-noah/noah
- jcelerier 7y agoFirst thing I do on my macs is installing gnu coreutils, sed, awk, etc. I'm happy for people who enjoy the "ideological UNIX purity" of BSD tools but I like to get work done and I don't think that comparing bloat between GNU tools and BSD tools is a conversation that you can meaningfully have on any recent compiter as a full hd wallpaper likely uses more RAM than both combined.
- trasz 7y agoThe —help is not particularly useful when you have proper man pages.
- rkeene2 7y agoIt is often less verbose than a man page so can be seen entirely without a pager, which is often all you need when you are looking for a reminder of that periodically used option. Certainly having both options (man page and inline help) is better than having only one option.
- trasz 7y agoIf you can’t find what you need in the man page, because of the bloat, well, it’s the bloat that’s the problem, not the lack of —help.
- steeve 7y agoIs it possible to run it without the kernel module? That would make it way simpler to use with docker!
- bloody-crow 7y ago> The name Darling is a combination of “Darwin” and “Linux”. I'm sorry, what? How?
- dansman805 7y agoTake the first three letters of each name; Darwin gives you "dar" and Linux gives you "lin". Combining these, you get "darlin". Then, presumably the authors wanted a dictionary word for their name, so they chose darling.
- peatmoss 7y agoObviously the “g” at the end is for GNU ;-)
- 0az 7y agoNice. Off topic, but does anyone know of any good IINA alternatives for Linux? I have not found anything that beats it in terms of polish. VLC is nice, but IINA does one thing really well, and is based on MPV, with all of its powerful configuration options and nice keybinds.
- 1_player 7y agoThere's none. SMplayer is the one that I use on both Windows and Linux, though it's starting to show its age.
- sunaurus 7y agoI've never used IINA, but I'm wondering why you don't just use mpv on Linux? I've been using mpv for years and I've never had any issues with it.
- kinleyd 7y agompv is fantastic and continues to improve.
- 1_player 7y agoIINA is much more than mpv. Sure, it uses mpv underneath, but the selling point of IINA is a well thought out UI with just enough features but not too many (totally subjective, of course)
- sunaurus 7y ago> ...the selling point of IINA is a well thought out UI with just enough features but not too many That's exactly how I would describe the default mpv UI :)
- 0az 7y agoI do use both — I actually used MPV before discovering IINA — but I like the UI of the latter, even if I still use MPV keybinds.
- moondev 7y ago
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- jamesu 7y agoI've used this to successfully run legacy 32bit commandline tools, though I think it's still too unstable to rely on it in a production environment. I think there's been a notable upsurge in interest though, so I expect good things to happen with it this year.
- fithisux 7y agoI had hopes for Puredarwin :-( not an emulation layer. And I hoped Apple sponsored a community distribution
- kick 7y agoWhy would Apple sponsor something like this? PureDarwin isn't even Linux.
- KingOfCoders 7y agoTLDR; "Does it support GUI apps? Almost! This took us a lot of time and effort, but we finally have basic experimental support for running simple graphical applications."
- danieldk 7y agoDon't get your hopes up (too much) though. They will have to rely on an open source reimplementation of Cocoa (e.g. Cocotron or GNUStep) to support GUI apps. These are a long way from providing a full implementation of the macOS frameworks. You cannot just take a random Objective-C or Swift macOS app and recompile it using these open source libraries. So, binaries is even much further away. Even Wine, which has seen two decades of development (including from companies such as CrossOver), only supports a small subset of Windows applications very well. Of course, it might be possible to re-use macOS' frameworks, but Apple would probably sue anyone who tries to offer that into oblivion. BTW. I think this is a great project, but there are some people who seem to be rooting for using this for running Creative Suite on Linux. That won't happen anytime soon, if ever. Wine is your best shot.
- extro 7y agoUnrelated comment, but am i the only one who gets annoyed by the "does it runs safari?" or "does it runs adobe?" questions? It seems a significant portion of "readers" can't or won't actually read, which is pretty ironic on a news site. I hate this.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- butterthebuddha 7y agoMost people are here to have discussions, and not necessarily read news.
- sys_64738 7y agoWill it consume as much RAM as running OS X apps does on a real Mac?
- agucova 7y agoGiven it's a translation layer, and it doesn't modify the actual code, I would imagine memory usage would be very similar. (Or higher)
- butz 7y agoI had high hopes of running Sketch on Linux.
- buzzdenver 7y agoI know it's tangential, but get a TLS cert!
- kiwijamo 7y agoSurprising to see a site for geeks in 2020 without TLS!