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>Food has a global supply chain that requires your currency to have value. Not true for all food. > When the government prints money, it makes it harder for i

>Food has a global supply chain that requires your currency to have value. Not true for all food. > When the government prints money, it makes it harder for it to borrow money in the future. What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. >Eventually, your dollar buys less on the global markets, meaning farmers cannot acquire fertilizer and other needed things to grow your crops. We produce these things locally. Every nation-state with a half-decent national security apparatus does. >People will lose their jobs as exports dry up and American dollars buy less and less foreign currency. This is one of the most glaring cognitive dissonances in this thought process. Currency is relative. When the American dollar is strong, it means foreign currency buys fewer tangible American goods, and we actually export less. When the American dollar is weak, foreign currency goes farther and we export more. >When the government bails you out and gives you money, you slowly by slowly become unable to eat, unable to have roofs over your head. As Alan Greenspan put it when Paul Ryan brought this fanciful line of thinking up in Congress: inflation happens when there are too many dollars chasing too few goods. There are two sides to this equation. Given the difficulty the Fed has had meeting inflation targets, it is far more likely we are constrained by the allocation of dollars either because we are not able to get them where they need to be in the economy, or because there's just too little circulating.

tathougies 7y ago
America needs phosphate and imports it currently. We cannot produce enough locally. This is needed to produce enough food. I'm not sure how you get around this in your magical world. > What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. Yeah, making up money and having people sit at home (thus not paying taxes) is really going to inspire people to hold American debt!
- omegaworks 7y ago
  >America needs phosphate and imports it currently. Sure, right now the economics work out that it's cheaper to import phosphate then produce it locally. >We cannot produce enough locally. We might not produce enough locally to meet the current demand right now, but that doesn't mean we can't. It about whether capital is currently allocated toward the production of phosphate. It doesn't need to be because we can import it. If we couldn't produce it under any circumstance that would be a massive national security flaw. :) > Yeah, making up money and having people sit at home (thus not paying taxes) is really going to inspire people to hold American debt! Having as many people as we can bear sit at home is the best course of action at the very present moment to avoid spreading this virus. The people sitting at home need to be able to buy what they need and pay the essential workers producing and transporting what they need to them. The alternative is worse: you spread virus and can't pay working people. People will hold American debt if the American government can assure debt holders that its people and institutions can survive a pandemic. >... is really going to inspire people to hold American debt! In the end we agree, it really is about faith :)
  - tathougies 7y ago
    > If we couldn't produce it under any circumstance that would be a massive national security flaw. :) Yeah, it's so much a national security flaw that American law gives American citizens the right to claim islands as parts of the United States in order to secure access to a very difficult to acquire resource. > Having as many people as we can bear sit at home is the best course of action at the very present moment to avoid spreading this virus. This is not up for debate, and I never disagreed with it. > The people sitting at home need to be able to buy what they need and pay the essential workers producing and transporting what they need to them. Certainly. I wasn't disagreeing with you that people will need compensation for lost income. However, what we were discussing was this: > Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll still be able to eat, we'll still have roofs over our heads, etc. The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. The ultra-rich are not going to suffer. They have their own personal capital they will use for their enjoyment. The people who will suffer are the American tax payer (regardless of income) who now has a larger debt burden. At some point, the American tax burden will overshadow the service we pay on debts. Then all faith will be lossed. It may not happen after this bill. It may not happen after 100 of these bills, but it will happen eventually, and it'll not harm the rich, I'll tell you that.

tathougies 7y ago

America needs phosphate and imports it currently. We cannot produce enough locally. This is needed to produce enough food. I'm not sure how you get around this in your magical world. > What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. Yeah, making up money and having people sit at home (thus not paying taxes) is really going to inspire people to hold American debt!

omegaworks 7y ago
>America needs phosphate and imports it currently. Sure, right now the economics work out that it's cheaper to import phosphate then produce it locally. >We cannot produce enough locally. We might not produce enough locally to meet the current demand right now, but that doesn't mean we can't. It about whether capital is currently allocated toward the production of phosphate. It doesn't need to be because we can import it. If we couldn't produce it under any circumstance that would be a massive national security flaw. :) > Yeah, making up money and having people sit at home (thus not paying taxes) is really going to inspire people to hold American debt! Having as many people as we can bear sit at home is the best course of action at the very present moment to avoid spreading this virus. The people sitting at home need to be able to buy what they need and pay the essential workers producing and transporting what they need to them. The alternative is worse: you spread virus and can't pay working people. People will hold American debt if the American government can assure debt holders that its people and institutions can survive a pandemic. >... is really going to inspire people to hold American debt! In the end we agree, it really is about faith :)
- tathougies 7y ago
  > If we couldn't produce it under any circumstance that would be a massive national security flaw. :) Yeah, it's so much a national security flaw that American law gives American citizens the right to claim islands as parts of the United States in order to secure access to a very difficult to acquire resource. > Having as many people as we can bear sit at home is the best course of action at the very present moment to avoid spreading this virus. This is not up for debate, and I never disagreed with it. > The people sitting at home need to be able to buy what they need and pay the essential workers producing and transporting what they need to them. Certainly. I wasn't disagreeing with you that people will need compensation for lost income. However, what we were discussing was this: > Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll still be able to eat, we'll still have roofs over our heads, etc. The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. The ultra-rich are not going to suffer. They have their own personal capital they will use for their enjoyment. The people who will suffer are the American tax payer (regardless of income) who now has a larger debt burden. At some point, the American tax burden will overshadow the service we pay on debts. Then all faith will be lossed. It may not happen after this bill. It may not happen after 100 of these bills, but it will happen eventually, and it'll not harm the rich, I'll tell you that.