4 ms·

I'm not sure I understand the "bad for the economy" side of things. Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll st

I'm not sure I understand the "bad for the economy" side of things. Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll still be able to eat, we'll still have roofs over our heads, etc. The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. Who gives a shit about them? The average American is affected less by a quarantine than an unchecked pandemic. The only reason this is even a discussion is because our political system has been completely bought out to serve only the wealthy.

tathougies 7y ago
> Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll still be able to eat, we'll still have roofs over our heads, etc. The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. Why do you think this to be the case? The ultra-rich don't need you around to do whatever they want. They have their islands and personal staff to attend to them. When the government bails you out and gives you money, you slowly by slowly become unable to eat, unable to have roofs over your head. Food does not magically appear in a grocery store. Food has a global supply chain that requires your currency to have value. When the government prints money, it makes it harder for it to borrow money in the future. Eventually, your dollar buys less on the global markets, meaning farmers cannot acquire fertilizer and other needed things to grow your crops. We won't be able to hire labor to pick the crops. People will lose their jobs as exports dry up and American dollars buy less and less foreign currency. Eventually, farmers raise their prices to combat all these forces, and the government must print more money. This is just food on the table. Construction materials and workers to put a roof on your head require an even larger, international supply chain. In order to combat this, the government reduces welfare programs and increases taxes. Business and 'the rich' leave for greener pastures. Frankly, inflation kills, and I don't understand why everyone is so dismissive of this. I'm not even touching inflation's effects on doctors ability to do medicine.
- omegaworks 7y ago
  >Food has a global supply chain that requires your currency to have value. Not true for all food. > When the government prints money, it makes it harder for it to borrow money in the future. What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. >Eventually, your dollar buys less on the global markets, meaning farmers cannot acquire fertilizer and other needed things to grow your crops. We produce these things locally. Every nation-state with a half-decent national security apparatus does. >People will lose their jobs as exports dry up and American dollars buy less and less foreign currency. This is one of the most glaring cognitive dissonances in this thought process. Currency is relative. When the American dollar is strong, it means foreign currency buys fewer tangible American goods, and we actually export less. When the American dollar is weak, foreign currency goes farther and we export more. >When the government bails you out and gives you money, you slowly by slowly become unable to eat, unable to have roofs over your head. As Alan Greenspan put it when Paul Ryan brought this fanciful line of thinking up in Congress: inflation happens when there are too many dollars chasing too few goods. There are two sides to this equation. Given the difficulty the Fed has had meeting inflation targets, it is far more likely we are constrained by the allocation of dollars either because we are not able to get them where they need to be in the economy, or because there's just too little circulating.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    America needs phosphate and imports it currently. We cannot produce enough locally. This is needed to produce enough food. I'm not sure how you get around this in your magical world. > What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. Yeah, making up money and having people sit at home (thus not paying taxes) is really going to inspire people to hold American debt!
    - omegaworks 7y ago
bkruse 7y ago
This is entirely incorrect The ultra-rich will have a variable level of "decreased performance in their portfolio". They're still rich, especially if not over-levered. They are also well positioned to take advantage of any hyper-inflation event. The average american, with the loss of their primary income and no real UBI is going to feel it the most.
- vkou 7y ago
  For the USD to hyperinflate, we would have to print quadrillions and quintillions of dollars. Hyperinflation is about as real a threat as Bigfoot, or little green men from mars.
pengaru 7y ago
> The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. [citation needed]
- heavyset_go 7y ago
  The wealthy's assets require hired labor to keep and increase their value. Their wealth is derived from those assets.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    There's lots of hired labor around the world, no one needs to live in the united states. That is not actually a requirement to be rich.
  - pengaru 7y ago
    In a world where people's identities have become hopelessly conflated with their occupation, preventing them from working for a prolonged period would seem like a pretty major change to their lives. I'm talking about working-class folks here, not the ultra-rich. Life isn't just about having money to buy food.
a_tractor 7y ago
>I'm not sure I understand the "bad for the economy" side of things Rest assured, you don't. What about the people driving the Ubers, or the middle-class property owners who have come to depend on the income they receive from their extra room via Airbnb, or the stewards, pilots, and all the other airport employees, all whom depend on "us" riding, renting, flying, and buying... Not to fund anything close to a wealthy lifestyle, but likely their basic living expenses. Their many more of them than the people at the top its almost as if the so-called "ultra-rich" are completely irrelevant. >Who gives a shit about them? I almost can't believe you think this way.

tathougies 7y ago

> Who will suffer if we shut down unessential businesses and just mail people checks? We'll still be able to eat, we'll still have roofs over our heads, etc. The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. Why do you think this to be the case? The ultra-rich don't need you around to do whatever they want. They have their islands and personal staff to attend to them. When the government bails you out and gives you money, you slowly by slowly become unable to eat, unable to have roofs over your head. Food does not magically appear in a grocery store. Food has a global supply chain that requires your currency to have value. When the government prints money, it makes it harder for it to borrow money in the future. Eventually, your dollar buys less on the global markets, meaning farmers cannot acquire fertilizer and other needed things to grow your crops. We won't be able to hire labor to pick the crops. People will lose their jobs as exports dry up and American dollars buy less and less foreign currency. Eventually, farmers raise their prices to combat all these forces, and the government must print more money. This is just food on the table. Construction materials and workers to put a roof on your head require an even larger, international supply chain. In order to combat this, the government reduces welfare programs and increases taxes. Business and 'the rich' leave for greener pastures. Frankly, inflation kills, and I don't understand why everyone is so dismissive of this. I'm not even touching inflation's effects on doctors ability to do medicine.

omegaworks 7y ago
>Food has a global supply chain that requires your currency to have value. Not true for all food. > When the government prints money, it makes it harder for it to borrow money in the future. What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. >Eventually, your dollar buys less on the global markets, meaning farmers cannot acquire fertilizer and other needed things to grow your crops. We produce these things locally. Every nation-state with a half-decent national security apparatus does. >People will lose their jobs as exports dry up and American dollars buy less and less foreign currency. This is one of the most glaring cognitive dissonances in this thought process. Currency is relative. When the American dollar is strong, it means foreign currency buys fewer tangible American goods, and we actually export less. When the American dollar is weak, foreign currency goes farther and we export more. >When the government bails you out and gives you money, you slowly by slowly become unable to eat, unable to have roofs over your head. As Alan Greenspan put it when Paul Ryan brought this fanciful line of thinking up in Congress: inflation happens when there are too many dollars chasing too few goods. There are two sides to this equation. Given the difficulty the Fed has had meeting inflation targets, it is far more likely we are constrained by the allocation of dollars either because we are not able to get them where they need to be in the economy, or because there's just too little circulating.
- tathougies 7y ago
  America needs phosphate and imports it currently. We cannot produce enough locally. This is needed to produce enough food. I'm not sure how you get around this in your magical world. > What causes it to be harder to borrow is the faith of people willing to hold government debt. The American government has never reneged on its debt. "Printing money" has very little to do with the government's ability to borrow. Yeah, making up money and having people sit at home (thus not paying taxes) is really going to inspire people to hold American debt!
  - omegaworks 7y ago

bkruse 7y ago

This is entirely incorrect The ultra-rich will have a variable level of "decreased performance in their portfolio". They're still rich, especially if not over-levered. They are also well positioned to take advantage of any hyper-inflation event. The average american, with the loss of their primary income and no real UBI is going to feel it the most.

vkou 7y ago
For the USD to hyperinflate, we would have to print quadrillions and quintillions of dollars. Hyperinflation is about as real a threat as Bigfoot, or little green men from mars.

pengaru 7y ago

> The only ones who will really see their lives change significantly are the ultra-rich, who need us riding around in Ubers, renting Airbnbs, and buying plane tickets so they can fund their wealthy lifestyles. [citation needed]

heavyset_go 7y ago
The wealthy's assets require hired labor to keep and increase their value. Their wealth is derived from those assets.
- tathougies 7y ago
  There's lots of hired labor around the world, no one needs to live in the united states. That is not actually a requirement to be rich.
- pengaru 7y ago
  In a world where people's identities have become hopelessly conflated with their occupation, preventing them from working for a prolonged period would seem like a pretty major change to their lives. I'm talking about working-class folks here, not the ultra-rich. Life isn't just about having money to buy food.

a_tractor 7y ago

>I'm not sure I understand the "bad for the economy" side of things Rest assured, you don't. What about the people driving the Ubers, or the middle-class property owners who have come to depend on the income they receive from their extra room via Airbnb, or the stewards, pilots, and all the other airport employees, all whom depend on "us" riding, renting, flying, and buying... Not to fund anything close to a wealthy lifestyle, but likely their basic living expenses. Their many more of them than the people at the top its almost as if the so-called "ultra-rich" are completely irrelevant. >Who gives a shit about them? I almost can't believe you think this way.