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What about an English version of Toki Pona? (maybe Eng-Toki Pona?) Why? Because English is very common already, and it seems an easy way to not only have usabl

What about an English version of Toki Pona? (maybe Eng-Toki Pona?) Why? Because English is very common already, and it seems an easy way to not only have usable words in two languages (English and Eng-Toki Pona) but also it would be useful to actually learn. (foreigners could _actually_ use this for real) This is the biggest hurdle I have with made up languages, they have very little actual utility value. As an afterthought, a simple charades like game where you have the limited vocabulary on a board, card or print out where people have to describe an event,book/story, object, movie, etc... using Eng-Toki Pona. Everyone could do it right now (even kids), and learn a new language at the same time. (one of the easiest ways to learn something is by making it fun and a game) Edit: A reverse of this - Japanese-Toki Pona, all the same words, but in Japanese. Same with every other language (Russian, German, French, etc...). Then, after you learn one Toki derivative, you can easily pick up others. I figure it's possible you could learn the choppy/odd sentence building technique in your native language, and then add other languages later. Could also be fun as a group game once the English version gets easy. And all of these would be useful everywhere... not just speaking with other Toki Pona speakers.

_abattoir 7y ago
Most of Toki Pona sounds like English anyway: wan: one tu: two meli: female, from Tok Pisin mewi, from "Mary" (as in, the Virgin) lukin: looking ale: all en: and ike: icky jaki: yucky insa: inside jelo: yellow kalama: clamor kama: come ken: can kule: color lape: sleepy lawa: law linja: line lili: little lupa: loop mani: money mu: moo musi: amusing/music nanpa: number nimi: name open: open pilin: feeling sama: same selo: shell sike: circle suno: sun mun: moon toki: talking wile: will
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  I know, I've studied it. But I gave up because no one else cared to learn it with me.
  - _abattoir 7y ago
    There's a ton of active communities these days! https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/ https://t.me/tokiponaTelegram https://t.me/tokiponaTelegram https://discord.gg/uzCUNE https://discord.gg/uzCUNE https://discord.gg/VUd5Gt https://discord.gg/VUd5Gt https://tokipona.fandom.com/wiki/Where_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F https://tokipona.fandom.com/wiki/Where_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F
- schoen 7y ago
  The only one of these that I think doesn't work is lupa, which is a hole or opening, which doesn't necessarily have that much in common with a loop. I guess they could both be circular, but lupa applies to any kind of opening, circular or not.
  - mrob 7y ago
    Same origin as loophole (hole in a wall), which can also be any shape?
- jhbadger 7y ago
  Indeed. In the book detailing the language, the author says that the language was inspired by the various pidgins that have formed around the world where English words are modified to meet native phonology and combined with a simplified grammar.
Complexicate 7y ago
Ogden's Basic English [1] with 850 words [2] and a simplified grammar was an attempt at making an international auxiliary language from English. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_l...
- RobertRoberts 7y ago
  That's interesting. This seems like actual work to learn though.. (850 words AND grammar rules vs Toki Pona's 100 words and grammar free-for-all) The reason I made my suggestion is because it would be based on Toki Pona itself, a subset of all languages as it's core philosophy, which seems like a universally good idea. But to increase adoption of this idea, I feel it needs to have broader appeal and real world value (ie, actually be able to use it somewhere). Otherwise it feels a bit like trivia or a toy.
- iaabtpbtpnn 7y ago
  I have long wondered whether it would be possible to identify the most basic, core words of English, and construct a dictionary such that all definitions eventually reduce to those words. That way, a speaker of a foreign language could learn the meanings of the core words by translation into their native language, and then the process of learning a new word would be: look it up in the dictionary, and if there are any words in the definition that you don't already know, look those up, and so on until everything is reduced to the basic words you already know. The question then is, how many basic words must there be, and which ones are they? I realize nobody actually learns a language like this, but it's still conceptually interesting, analogous to the idealized process of reducing a mathematical proof all the way to the axioms (which, of course, mathematicians don't actually do, but in principle they could).
  - fbreton 7y ago
    This exists : https://learnthesewordsfirst.com/ https://learnthesewordsfirst.com/ is a "multi layer dictionary". There are 360 base words, the very first ones are explained with images, then each word is defined using the previous ones. Then there's a list of 2000 more words defined using only base words. The last layer is a full dictionary whose definitions use only these 360+2000 words.

_abattoir 7y ago

Most of Toki Pona sounds like English anyway: wan: one tu: two meli: female, from Tok Pisin mewi, from "Mary" (as in, the Virgin) lukin: looking ale: all en: and ike: icky jaki: yucky insa: inside jelo: yellow kalama: clamor kama: come ken: can kule: color lape: sleepy lawa: law linja: line lili: little lupa: loop mani: money mu: moo musi: amusing/music nanpa: number nimi: name open: open pilin: feeling sama: same selo: shell sike: circle suno: sun mun: moon toki: talking wile: will

RobertRoberts 7y ago
I know, I've studied it. But I gave up because no one else cared to learn it with me.
- _abattoir 7y ago
  There's a ton of active communities these days! https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/ https://www.reddit.com/r/tokipona/ https://t.me/tokiponaTelegram https://t.me/tokiponaTelegram https://discord.gg/uzCUNE https://discord.gg/uzCUNE https://discord.gg/VUd5Gt https://discord.gg/VUd5Gt https://tokipona.fandom.com/wiki/Where_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F https://tokipona.fandom.com/wiki/Where_is_Toki_Pona_used%3F
schoen 7y ago
The only one of these that I think doesn't work is lupa, which is a hole or opening, which doesn't necessarily have that much in common with a loop. I guess they could both be circular, but lupa applies to any kind of opening, circular or not.
- mrob 7y ago
  Same origin as loophole (hole in a wall), which can also be any shape?
jhbadger 7y ago
Indeed. In the book detailing the language, the author says that the language was inspired by the various pidgins that have formed around the world where English words are modified to meet native phonology and combined with a simplified grammar.

Complexicate 7y ago

Ogden's Basic English [1] with 850 words [2] and a simplified grammar was an attempt at making an international auxiliary language from English. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_English [2] https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_l...

RobertRoberts 7y ago
That's interesting. This seems like actual work to learn though.. (850 words AND grammar rules vs Toki Pona's 100 words and grammar free-for-all) The reason I made my suggestion is because it would be based on Toki Pona itself, a subset of all languages as it's core philosophy, which seems like a universally good idea. But to increase adoption of this idea, I feel it needs to have broader appeal and real world value (ie, actually be able to use it somewhere). Otherwise it feels a bit like trivia or a toy.
iaabtpbtpnn 7y ago
I have long wondered whether it would be possible to identify the most basic, core words of English, and construct a dictionary such that all definitions eventually reduce to those words. That way, a speaker of a foreign language could learn the meanings of the core words by translation into their native language, and then the process of learning a new word would be: look it up in the dictionary, and if there are any words in the definition that you don't already know, look those up, and so on until everything is reduced to the basic words you already know. The question then is, how many basic words must there be, and which ones are they? I realize nobody actually learns a language like this, but it's still conceptually interesting, analogous to the idealized process of reducing a mathematical proof all the way to the axioms (which, of course, mathematicians don't actually do, but in principle they could).
- fbreton 7y ago
  This exists : https://learnthesewordsfirst.com/ https://learnthesewordsfirst.com/ is a "multi layer dictionary". There are 360 base words, the very first ones are explained with images, then each word is defined using the previous ones. Then there's a list of 2000 more words defined using only base words. The last layer is a full dictionary whose definitions use only these 360+2000 words.