3 ms·

"This was created in a lab" has been the whisper of conspiracy-theorists. How likely is it? And a vial broke and it got released like in a Marvel comic?

burntoutfire 7y ago
Coronaviruses are actually created in labs as part of virology research (see my original link). It just seems that, in light of links that people posted, it did not escape/was released from the Wuhan lab - the strain that created the pandemic originated via natural processes.
- tropo 7y ago
  Nah, see my comment above. Those links only tell us that we did not find evidence of the use modern gene-editing technology in the virus. It's misdirection with a straw man. The lab was breeding viruses the old-fashioned way long before modern gene-editing technology was invented. Bat coronaviruses would be mixed with other viruses and repeatedly passed through human cells. That leaves no evidence in the genome. It looks just like natural selection. The virus labs in China have had several other dangerous accidents that let viruses get out. Those previous accidents were gotten under control. With this one, we weren't so lucky. I think the lesson is clear: don't screw around making deadly viruses when your biohazard containment is substandard. Maybe just don't attempt it under any conditions.
  - mancerayder 7y ago
    There's a lot of supposition here. If this extraordinary claim is true, why isn't it screaming at the top of headlines?
    - tropo 7y ago
      Lots of reasons: There is a difference between "seems obviously correct" and "proven well enough to avoid a lawsuit". China exerts control over American media companies. Ones that don't play ball get banned in China. Remember that these companies are usually involved in many businesses, including the sale of movies to China's large population. Everybody is afraid to upset China. Even the publisher of Nature has ditched about 1000 articles that were upsetting to the Chinese government. Much of the US media is strongly in opposition to the US president. (They even stopped airing his virus updates, despite good ratings, because it was making him look good.) There is no desire to spread any news that could support his opposition to China.
throwaway995 7y ago
Okay, I'll bite: 1. The Chinese initially tried cover up and conceal reports new of the virus. E.g., the police intimidation of Dr. Li Wenliang before he succumb to the virus. 2. Wuhan, where the virus was first reported, is coincidentally China's best and only BSL-4 virus research lab, specifically focused on SARS. COVID is a close relation to SARS. 3. Chinese were caught doing unethical and dangerous DNS editing on human embryos. China later sent this "rouge" scientist to prison after a raucous global outcry. 4. Its been reported some Chinese researchers sell laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them. All this said, I don't think China deliberately released released virus. More likely, this will turn out to be China's Chernobyl. Plain and simple greedy incompetent people. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/world/asia/china-coronavirus-doctor-death.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/world/asia/china-coronavi... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-lab-studying-SARS-Ebola-Wuhan-outbreaks-center.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-la... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab-2020-02-22 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-... https://www.genengnews.com/insights/guilty-as-charged/ https://www.genengnews.com/insights/guilty-as-charged/

burntoutfire 7y ago

Coronaviruses are actually created in labs as part of virology research (see my original link). It just seems that, in light of links that people posted, it did not escape/was released from the Wuhan lab - the strain that created the pandemic originated via natural processes.

tropo 7y ago
Nah, see my comment above. Those links only tell us that we did not find evidence of the use modern gene-editing technology in the virus. It's misdirection with a straw man. The lab was breeding viruses the old-fashioned way long before modern gene-editing technology was invented. Bat coronaviruses would be mixed with other viruses and repeatedly passed through human cells. That leaves no evidence in the genome. It looks just like natural selection. The virus labs in China have had several other dangerous accidents that let viruses get out. Those previous accidents were gotten under control. With this one, we weren't so lucky. I think the lesson is clear: don't screw around making deadly viruses when your biohazard containment is substandard. Maybe just don't attempt it under any conditions.
- mancerayder 7y ago
  There's a lot of supposition here. If this extraordinary claim is true, why isn't it screaming at the top of headlines?
  - tropo 7y ago
    Lots of reasons: There is a difference between "seems obviously correct" and "proven well enough to avoid a lawsuit". China exerts control over American media companies. Ones that don't play ball get banned in China. Remember that these companies are usually involved in many businesses, including the sale of movies to China's large population. Everybody is afraid to upset China. Even the publisher of Nature has ditched about 1000 articles that were upsetting to the Chinese government. Much of the US media is strongly in opposition to the US president. (They even stopped airing his virus updates, despite good ratings, because it was making him look good.) There is no desire to spread any news that could support his opposition to China.

throwaway995 7y ago

Okay, I'll bite: 1. The Chinese initially tried cover up and conceal reports new of the virus. E.g., the police intimidation of Dr. Li Wenliang before he succumb to the virus. 2. Wuhan, where the virus was first reported, is coincidentally China's best and only BSL-4 virus research lab, specifically focused on SARS. COVID is a close relation to SARS. 3. Chinese were caught doing unethical and dangerous DNS editing on human embryos. China later sent this "rouge" scientist to prison after a raucous global outcry. 4. Its been reported some Chinese researchers sell laboratory animals to street vendors after they have finished experimenting on them. All this said, I don't think China deliberately released released virus. More likely, this will turn out to be China's Chernobyl. Plain and simple greedy incompetent people. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/world/asia/china-coronavirus-doctor-death.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/07/world/asia/china-coronavi... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-lab-studying-SARS-Ebola-Wuhan-outbreaks-center.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-7922379/Chinas-la... https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-coronavirus-may-have-leaked-from-a-lab-2020-02-22 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dont-buy-chinas-story-the-... https://www.genengnews.com/insights/guilty-as-charged/ https://www.genengnews.com/insights/guilty-as-charged/