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I need to tell you this: in the 2000s we worked off the strategy and tactics outlined in The Manual and had a string of global chart topping successes I can on

I need to tell you this: in the 2000s we worked off the strategy and tactics outlined in The Manual and had a string of global chart topping successes I can only assume others did the same...do u know the bigger story?

rgbrgb 7y ago
If anybody else is wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manual
ilamont 7y ago
I would love to hear more. I've heard of at least one other band that had this kind of success, and it does not surprise me in the least. Drummond knew how the industry worked as a musician, manager, and skeptic, and in that book outlined a formula that could work. It was a bit of a piss-take but there were nuggets of wisdom and truth.
- rock_hard 7y ago
  Trying to keep this account disconnected from my real life persona so won’t name names. But we had a series of number ones around the world in countries like the US, Canada, UK, Germany, Japan, Brasil, France, Italy, China, Australia...really every country you have ever heard of. Of course some of the tactics had to be translated into 2000s world but I still recommend aspiring music artists to read it when they ask me for advice today. It’s of course not the only strategy that works...but I’d say it’s the easiest to execute if what you want is commercial success So in either case the book levels the expectations (“sex, drugs and money will always be a problem”) and establishes some fundamentals...and it’s of course a really fun weekend read. Many of the general ideas also translate 1:1 to startups or really any kind of endeavor and have served me very well in my career
  - ilamont 7y ago
    I always remembered the line from the book about finding a bass line being like a "panther on the prowl" and IIRC mentioning Billie Jean or some other Michael Jackson song as an example. It really made sense. The same section also warned against hiring some "thumb-slapping dickhead" to play bass which made sense from their perspective (The KLF never used bass players) but doesn't hold true for all types of songs, even dance music.
    - rock_hard 7y ago
      I remember now One of my takeaways was to not try to do everything yourself...if fact to try to do nothing yourself except piecing together existing stuff in novel ways I just watched a YouTube video of one of the producers of Demi Lovato and he frames it like this: “What makes a great producer is not the ability to play any instrument or be a good engineer or anything. You can find others to do that for you. What makes a great producer is the ability to know how to tell a compelling story with your work!” Paraphrased from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kre17S89-j8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kre17S89-j8 I think this is true for any product...your are selling people on a story/vision...of what could be, not what is!
  - blast 7y ago
    What are some of those general ideas that have served you well?
    - rock_hard 7y ago
      It’s been a while that I read it but generally speaking: 1. How to strip things down to their essence and focus on that. 2. What to expect and not to expect from Being successful 3. Being scrappy as fuck Just read it...it’s available for free online as pdf...it’s quick and super fun read
      - Uhhrrr 7y ago
        The elements which stuck in my head were: 1. Steal the drum and bass from an old soul record, don't try to engineer your own. 2. For lyrics, use things you hear shop clerks saying. 3. (from the opening of the book) "Start off skint and on the dole." Did you do any of those?
        rock_hard 7y ago
        Did all of them We would usually program the bass ourselves for the type of music we made but the progressions were battle tested decades earlier
alasdair_ 7y ago
Scooter did that too. And there was "Bring Me Edelweiss" but that was a single hit.
- rock_hard 7y ago
  Yep, also Chumbawamba
fzzzy 7y ago
Absolutely, I don't see why it wouldn't have worked. I doubt it would work today however.
- rock_hard 7y ago
  Why do u think it wouldn’t work today? I think the strategies in the book are timeless
  - fzzzy 7y ago
    Well, I was thinking specifically about the instruction to use ABABCBB form for a song, which was great in the 80s and 90s, but would produce a song that was way too long for today's tastes, I think. I believe you when you say there are many timeless lessons in the book.
    - rock_hard 7y ago
      Yeah you have to adapt the tactics to the modern times The key lesson here issnt to use a ABABCBB arrangement but to research whatever the successful arrangement of your time is and to apply it
      - fzzzy 7y ago
        Thanks! That's a great insight. The book really does emphasize steeping yourself completely in pop in order to absorb as much as possible. Also, I guess the tracking engineer would be up on the latest styles and able to assist with this. I wonder if there are still big studios you could convince to book studio time with net 90 terms? I suppose there must be. So much modern music is just bedroom recordings nowadays but I'm sure fancy studios still exist.

rgbrgb 7y ago

If anybody else is wondering: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Manual

ilamont 7y ago

I would love to hear more. I've heard of at least one other band that had this kind of success, and it does not surprise me in the least. Drummond knew how the industry worked as a musician, manager, and skeptic, and in that book outlined a formula that could work. It was a bit of a piss-take but there were nuggets of wisdom and truth.

rock_hard 7y ago
Trying to keep this account disconnected from my real life persona so won’t name names. But we had a series of number ones around the world in countries like the US, Canada, UK, Germany, Japan, Brasil, France, Italy, China, Australia...really every country you have ever heard of. Of course some of the tactics had to be translated into 2000s world but I still recommend aspiring music artists to read it when they ask me for advice today. It’s of course not the only strategy that works...but I’d say it’s the easiest to execute if what you want is commercial success So in either case the book levels the expectations (“sex, drugs and money will always be a problem”) and establishes some fundamentals...and it’s of course a really fun weekend read. Many of the general ideas also translate 1:1 to startups or really any kind of endeavor and have served me very well in my career
- ilamont 7y ago
  I always remembered the line from the book about finding a bass line being like a "panther on the prowl" and IIRC mentioning Billie Jean or some other Michael Jackson song as an example. It really made sense. The same section also warned against hiring some "thumb-slapping dickhead" to play bass which made sense from their perspective (The KLF never used bass players) but doesn't hold true for all types of songs, even dance music.
  - rock_hard 7y ago
    I remember now One of my takeaways was to not try to do everything yourself...if fact to try to do nothing yourself except piecing together existing stuff in novel ways I just watched a YouTube video of one of the producers of Demi Lovato and he frames it like this: “What makes a great producer is not the ability to play any instrument or be a good engineer or anything. You can find others to do that for you. What makes a great producer is the ability to know how to tell a compelling story with your work!” Paraphrased from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kre17S89-j8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kre17S89-j8 I think this is true for any product...your are selling people on a story/vision...of what could be, not what is!
- blast 7y ago
  What are some of those general ideas that have served you well?
  - rock_hard 7y ago
    It’s been a while that I read it but generally speaking: 1. How to strip things down to their essence and focus on that. 2. What to expect and not to expect from Being successful 3. Being scrappy as fuck Just read it...it’s available for free online as pdf...it’s quick and super fun read
    - Uhhrrr 7y ago
      The elements which stuck in my head were: 1. Steal the drum and bass from an old soul record, don't try to engineer your own. 2. For lyrics, use things you hear shop clerks saying. 3. (from the opening of the book) "Start off skint and on the dole." Did you do any of those?
      - rock_hard 7y ago
        Did all of them We would usually program the bass ourselves for the type of music we made but the progressions were battle tested decades earlier

alasdair_ 7y ago

Scooter did that too. And there was "Bring Me Edelweiss" but that was a single hit.

rock_hard 7y ago
Yep, also Chumbawamba

fzzzy 7y ago

Absolutely, I don't see why it wouldn't have worked. I doubt it would work today however.

rock_hard 7y ago
Why do u think it wouldn’t work today? I think the strategies in the book are timeless
- fzzzy 7y ago
  Well, I was thinking specifically about the instruction to use ABABCBB form for a song, which was great in the 80s and 90s, but would produce a song that was way too long for today's tastes, I think. I believe you when you say there are many timeless lessons in the book.
  - rock_hard 7y ago
    Yeah you have to adapt the tactics to the modern times The key lesson here issnt to use a ABABCBB arrangement but to research whatever the successful arrangement of your time is and to apply it
    - fzzzy 7y ago
      Thanks! That's a great insight. The book really does emphasize steeping yourself completely in pop in order to absorb as much as possible. Also, I guess the tracking engineer would be up on the latest styles and able to assist with this. I wonder if there are still big studios you could convince to book studio time with net 90 terms? I suppose there must be. So much modern music is just bedroom recordings nowadays but I'm sure fancy studios still exist.