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Moderate, constructive and polite people can leave also because there is a CoC. Reasonable people don't like when a community is lawyer-ing over rules, when rul

by belorn 7y ago

Moderate, constructive and polite people can leave also because there is a CoC. Reasonable people don't like when a community is lawyer-ing over rules, when rules get enforced ambiguously or nontransparent. All which are very common with code of conducts. As someone who ran a medium sized community for almost a decade, I saw such reasonable people leave for both a lack of rules (X should be forbidden, I am leaving) and also when we had a fully fledged code of conduct (I am tired of all the drama over X, I am leaving), and ambiguous/transparency issue (I am leaving because of the cabal who try to enforce their own interpretation of the rules). When the first happen followed with the second and third what you are left with was only members who either completely did not care or where inactive. At that point we removed the code of conduct and replaced it with a more common sense guideline of "just treat people with respect, and if you don't you get a friendly warning/reminder" and we slowly regained stability. Code of conduct has an inherently risk of becoming a weapon for those who want to use passive aggression or hidden-not-so-hidden bullying against an out group. The more strict the rules the more you need to have a transparent community process for enforcement, but sadly those tend to be mutually exclusive.

watwut 7y ago
None of that has anything to do with what I said about "you're always very free to simply walk away when that's the case" means in practical terms. People use to sound smart and mature and it is easy to use to make people stop talking about problems they see. Whether the complainers are right or wrong, "those who dont like how treats them should leave" as universal strategy is neither mature nor smart. I picked on that, because it is common cheap talking point that I was forced to re-evaluate few months ago (not just because of online issues). The linked article is in fact code of conduct and even specifies what will get you banned.
- belorn 7y ago
  Based on my own experience I don't disagree with the article statement you quoted above, but I would describe it using other words to be more clear. I would say that community conflicts resolving should prioritize deescalation and dispute resolution over norm enforcement and punitive punishment. This article say things like "Email that person, and try to work it out. Email the owners of the community, and alert them. Whatever you do, do not make a scene, as that will burden the entire community with your issue. If it's truly a problem and you're truly an asset to the community then you will probably get an email back. Sometimes, you have to be the bigger person. Say your piece privately, and don't dwell on it". The community I ran in the past even had a similar statement, but using other words. Instead of saying "do not make a scene" we said "don't create drama". We were frankly tired of peoples personal disputes escalating and dividing the community, and so was the community. Sadly at that point a lot of reasonable people had already left.

by belorn 7y ago

watwut 7y ago

None of that has anything to do with what I said about "you're always very free to simply walk away when that's the case" means in practical terms. People use to sound smart and mature and it is easy to use to make people stop talking about problems they see. Whether the complainers are right or wrong, "those who dont like how treats them should leave" as universal strategy is neither mature nor smart. I picked on that, because it is common cheap talking point that I was forced to re-evaluate few months ago (not just because of online issues). The linked article is in fact code of conduct and even specifies what will get you banned.

belorn 7y ago
Based on my own experience I don't disagree with the article statement you quoted above, but I would describe it using other words to be more clear. I would say that community conflicts resolving should prioritize deescalation and dispute resolution over norm enforcement and punitive punishment. This article say things like "Email that person, and try to work it out. Email the owners of the community, and alert them. Whatever you do, do not make a scene, as that will burden the entire community with your issue. If it's truly a problem and you're truly an asset to the community then you will probably get an email back. Sometimes, you have to be the bigger person. Say your piece privately, and don't dwell on it". The community I ran in the past even had a similar statement, but using other words. Instead of saying "do not make a scene" we said "don't create drama". We were frankly tired of peoples personal disputes escalating and dividing the community, and so was the community. Sadly at that point a lot of reasonable people had already left.